Thanks for that. That post fills in some gaps.
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Thanks for the kind words.
There are lots of great comments on this and other threads.
The commonest view seems to be that upgrades from a balanced system are most satisfying musically if you start at the source and work backwards. However, not everyone thinks that in every case.
In addition, there are some speakers that need more than any 250 can give, whatever the source. I’d pick Shahinian Hawks as fine examples of that, but comments here suggest that big PMCs might qualify too.
I have used an olive 250 with 62, 72, 82 and finally 52 as preamp in the last 30 years - it was ideal with the first 3 and great with all 4. That 250 has been serviced twice and now sits between 82 and Neat Xplorers in Tasmania. Only the 52 showed that the 250 was not quite ‘as good as it gets’ to my old ears.
The new 250 is a lot more capable than that 250, though also slightly different in presentation. Having heard what it can do with NC 200 and 300 boxes at Naim HQ, I suspect that few of us have the front end to NEED more than the NC 250.
Does that matter? If you hear 350s and like what they do to SQ in your house more than you like (say) a 552 would do in your system, and if you have the cash to hand, it doesn’t matter what any of us here think. All your options will sound great, but your ears are better arbiters of relative merit than any comments (most obviously including mine).
Good luck!
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Thanks James really helpful advise
R
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Thanks Nick
You put things so well
For me music is the great escape as I too reach older age and hopefully will get more listening time
It’s a balance for me re cash I have BW 804 D4 so was hoping that a 332 250 would suffice in driving them but hear the 350 community comments so will be as open as finances permit lol
Again thanks for taking time to enlighten me
R
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Dear nick is naim HQ did you audition 332/300 with nc250? How were your impressions?
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See Dan’s thread on the visit for lots of comments from multiple listeners.
(NAC 332 v 552 - any direct comparison? - #2 by paulbysea)
To summarise my waffling notes: -
NC250 was clearly excellent and is broadly comparable to my 2-box 300DR - I doubt my old olive 250 would have driven Focal Scala Utopia speakers so well.
I don’t prefer a 252 to my old 52 - slightly different rather than better. Otoh, a 252 is very good.
Without extensive comparisons it is hard to be sure, but I reckon a 332 by itself will beat a 282 easily, but not a 252.
The 332 really benefits from a 300 (Naim and outboard power supplies…) and 332/300 will probably out-perform 252/SC - I’d expect more detail and quieter background with no loss of boogie.
On the other hand, almost everyone agreed that a 552 is still ahead. Looking at s/h 552 prices is eye-opening if comparing to the new prices of 332/300.
YMMV of course.
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If you want to improve your LP-12 experience, it would be useful to know more about your LP-12.
What is it sitting on? Which bearing and tonearm do you have? The more I improved my source, the more the rest of the system impressed me
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Thanks for you advise, Nick had previously guided me on the source is key approach which I took
and now have a Klimax LP12
R
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Nick thanks a lot my doubt was that the nc250 in a 300 ecosys could be a limiting factor in termini of SQ
It’s a fair point to consider.
Naim opted to use the huge Focals with the NC250 all the way to 332/NPX300 source and 332/NPX300 as the preamp. Although different speakers to what I have at home mean that any conclusions need big caveats, that iteration was the first up the NC ladder that I felt was easily as good as my NDX2/XPSDR/52/SC/300DR.
The problem I see for buyers with deep pockets is the VFM for s/h boxes. Let’s start at the top of the pile.
NSS333/NPX300/NAC332/NPX300 = c.£23K? Add £6K for NC250 or £13K for NC350?
Ads from dealers and/ or eBay suggests that a 552 with DR can probably be had for less than £10K.
An older non-DR 500 looks to cost under £6K, while a recent 500DR might cost £10K. A late 300DR would cost perhaps £4K.
Some who have tried both clearly reckon the full NC line-up above is better than the full 500 equivalent. Most, including Naim, reckon that the 552/500 is still at the top of the tree (unless we can afford Statements), and I’d expect most to prefer 552/300DR to just about any NC line-up too.
In slightly less rarified territory, consider 252/SC/300DR, which might well be had for under £10K. To most ears, that might well just lose to the 4-box NC line-up above, but the gap won’t be big enough to persuade everyone to go NC. I’d certainly expect 252/SC/300DR to out-perform a New Classic system of 333/332/250 or 222/NPX300/250.
If the strongest competitor to the NC350s really is a s/h OC 500DR, and the strongest competitor for the NC250 is a s/h 300DR or 500DR, and the strongest competitor for 332/NPX300 is s/h 552 or 252/SC, then at least we can say that the obvious rival to Naim kit is still other Naim kit.
Many will want the security of buying new, or prefer the slightly different look and sound presentation of the NCs. For the rest of us…
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I am running two systems. One is a NSS 333 into a 252 with the DR SC into a NC 250. The speakers are TADs ME-1. It’s a fantastic system. The presentation very clear and detailed but not fatiguing. The amp can be driven to high levels.
I had previously a NAP 250 (non DR) which I thought was lacking something. The NC 250 is mighty fine in comparison. But if your funds permits, I would try the NC 350 bearing in mind the level at which you are playing.
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Thank you everyone for their support
It has been very helpful and dispelled some
Fears in also looking at old 500 kit and that servicing provides the reassurance needed
Always good to have clear options which I feel I have
Regs
R
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Nick I had the chance, using Fraim and NSC222 + NPX300, with NAP250DR (v new), NC250 and a NAP300DR (from my main system. There was a noticeable uplift at each change and indeed the 300 offered a little more than the NC250. Noticeable rather than a game changer.
Your conclusion is logical and vfm on OC kit, does make NC a serious expenditure. More suited to a step up on an upgrade path, rather than sideways or aiming to fix an issue which likely could be addressed at much lower cost.
The one caveat that I have not seen, when posts on these various threads on the subject of NC, is whether true like to like is being compared. Viz - NC will be new or v new kit - just what was the age of the OC kit - unlikely freshly serviced!
The other issue is that of course, not everyone can arrange Fraims in the best way possible for a 552 ND555; both like plenty of space to give of their best. One op’s pics, showed all units, of which there were a number, all packed in tight. Pre, streamer and one NAP NC which were the substitutes considered to be better. Hardly surprising a conclusion with sub-optimal support.
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A couple of months ago I made the move from
300DR → NAP 350 monoblocks to partner my 252/SCDR.
For the same reason as the OP I was keen to extract the maximum from my LP12 front end (Klimax spec) so the junction in the road was either 252->552 or 300->350. I could not do both and deemed it to be my final amplification upgrade having recently retired.
I was lucky enough to be able to audition the 350s on home demo for 3 weeks from my excellent dealer. This enabled me to swap out the 300/350 a couple of times at home. The decision became an easy one as I was offered a very good price for my 3 year old 300DR and, financially, it was a cheaper route for me than 552. Whilst the 252/350 combo is probably not as good as 552/300 the monoblocks have really changed the characteristics of my system for the better and I’m very happy with the results. Had I not had the 3 week home demo I may not have done the upgrade. It really made the difference.
The new Dave Gilmour album has only confirmed that with an awesome sound quality that really highlights what the 350s bring to the table.
Good luck in your deliberations and feel free to let us know what route you eventually take.
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May I ask what cable you use between 252/SC and 350? I ask as my test 552 to 350 with a chord cable was less successful…
I initially used the Naim “legacy” interconnect cables that came with the 350s then swapped in my previously used WH Morgana cables. I don’t plan to swap them back as I prefer the Morganas.
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Thanks, I assume you had your Morgana cables “adjusted” for this new use with the 350s (I was under the impression an old classic din - xlr would not be appropriate for use with new classic power amps)?
Oh……I wasn’t aware of this. Blimey. I’d better change back to the Naim cables in that case. What is the reason behind the incompatibility?
The Morganas sound a lot better (but I don’t want to risk problems with incorrect cabling).
Sorry, I didn’t want to alarm you, but as the dealer arranged loan of a “special” special cable I assumed that the std cables that came with my NAP300 was not wired 100% the same!? Maybe someone can confirm?
I have now had the Morganas re-wired by an ex WH and Naim engineer and all is well. Thank you for alerting me to this requirement.
In case you’re wondering…… the DIN end of the cable was fine but the XLR end needed to be reconfigured.
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