250 vs 300

Are you saying that because you don’t know the reason so it doesn’t exist, despite what Naim engineers advocate and the experience of many many users?

Well what about power blocks? They carry no audio signal. There are some that offer nothing more than mechanical stability and isolation from airborne vibration. In other words, they are less stressed. Do you think that these too can make no difference? I am using such a device from AV Options, and it makes a major, easily audible improvement. And I guess you need to address power cords in general…

Chemo sucks… been there… it really sucks! All I could do when I was sick was think of Food as Medicine and Pray a lot, I used to love going to the Church during the week when no one beside me and God were there… And stay positive. I wish you guys the best!

7 Likes

No one ever consider placebo when they do stuff themselves with their hifi stuff? This always surprise me. Your mind is a tricky thing and no one ever do proper AB tests when they come to a conclusion. But I guess whatever makes you happy is good. But the engineering side of things is rarely discussed which to me is sad because loads of these things would be killed as fake if so did. That Naim guy in the video doing factory tours have said quite a few very challenging things that to me as an engineer decrease Naim credibility. But I guess for the big mass of people such miracle talk do wonders.

4 Likes

And you are a world renowned audio electronics engineer with decades of experience?

1 Like

The force of placebo is strong.

3 Likes

Don’t forget that the first Naim people believe the earth was flat.

Like Slamdam say’s, placebo does a lot.
Cables keeping up in the air is something that a good sales man can sale.
But it is total nonsense.
If it makes people happy, fine.

But as I sayed before, i see an can understand why they destressed a audio signal cable.
But I don’t see in the factory tour video powercords on the machine. He doesn’t say anything about it.
That is my point. Is it not possible that you people heard something and apply it also to stuff that doesn’t improve anything.

It is becoming like nitrogen in car tires.

What you haven’t quite understood is that the musical signal is not directly amplified from the preamp

Instead what the amp does is that the DC feed from the PSU and modulate that to match the incoming signal from the preamp

So the dc is in fact what you’re really listening to

1 Like

This is normal in an amplifier. But as mentioned before, a DC signal has a frequency of 0. The de-stressing of cables will not do anything about that. If a system is well designed, it will not be bothered by outside things. This is also noticeable with Naim, because all my Naim amplifiers have never been able to hear anything that is not there. Phone or bluethoot devices near the 300’s power cables will result in nothing. That’s the way it is supposed to be. No idea how electrons will move better if the pieces of copper that already have a resistance of 0.0175ohm per meter are de-stressed. Only with a changing voltage do you get charge and discharge times. None of that applies here. I myself teach car electronics. There I have to teach my students to look for interference. I can tell you that with current pwm control signals and can-bus network systems this is quite a challenge. there you have to deal with transition resistances and therefore change in signals, which leads to disturbances. But a standard DC voltage is on voltage or is lost through a resistor. In this case, this does not apply to Naim. Or your connections must be corroded.

2 Likes

No-one is harsh particularly in this context. I am pretty sure that a least Naim did, in fact the guy specifically says that you would A/B pick the shaken snaic every time. I don’t believe he made that up.

At home I really cannot properly A/B many things and I guess I am not alone in this, which is part of the hifi challenge. A proper A/B would require that I don’t have to get up and dissemble/reassemble half of the rack to switch cables or boxes between A and B, because after all this and sweating like a pig the A/B comparison is pointless.

Regarding the credibility, the only relevant proof is in the listening. He even says that they have no idea why, they just know that it sounds better. This is totally fine and evidence-based, assuming again that it is not made up.

But that’s not what is said about the snaic in the video either. He is talking about mechanical stuff like avoiding additional microphonic influence that a stressed cable can transmit to the box

This thread is stressing me :joy::joy::joy:

2 Likes

Well, I found the video interesting and he makes no claims shaking the cables would in fact have an effect on the electrical properties of the cable. What he does do is reason around thoughts regarding microphonics being transfered.

A theory he puts forward is that a stiff cable might transfer vibrations ”better” than a soft one. This will then be coupled in to the parts onside the machine affecting sound quality. I don’t see why this is such a difficult proposition to, at least, imagine being plausible? Decoupling is nothing unique for Naim. The serious manufactures I have stumbled across all take vibration in to account.

2 Likes

As a slight deviation, does this microphonic vibration occur if the transformer in the amp hums? I have low level hum in my SN2 that isn’t audible unless very close and haven’t worried about it, but can it effect SQ as well?

I have no idea. I also have hum in my 250. Don’t know if it affects sq but aren’t really bothered because it sounds so damn good😁

1 Like

The whole chassis in my 272 ring like a bell which I can hear clearly when stopping the music. If Naim would be critical about microphonics they wouldn’t allow humming transformers and ringing chassis. There are simple solutions to those problems.

1 Like

Get a DC blocker :blush::+1:

Transformer hum: The manual states explicitly that transformer hum has no effect on SQ

1 Like

I don’t get it. Why do you buy Naim if you believe that they don’t know what they are doing?

Naim have advocated from the very beginning that to achieve the highest performance, transformers should be kept separate from the most delicate parts of the amplification chain (this is for a variety of factors that can adversely impair performance). It’s why the pre-amps have no transformers inside. It’s also why the top sources don’t either (or at slightly lower level, can be upgraded to bypass the internal supply). Even the power amps eventually separate the amp from the transformer with appreciable gains - just compare a NAP250DR against a NAP300DR; they are essentially the same amp, but the 300 separates the amp from the transformer and adds some extra cooling to take best advantage of the increased real estate.

Mechanical factors are just as important as electronic ones (mechanical engineers have a large area within R&D), which is why Naim go to such lengths to create decoupled and suspended parts, even going as far as creating mass loaded suspended PCBs, decoupled connectors both for audio and electrical input.

3 Likes