500 DR v ATC active speakers,

Enjoy!

Sounds like a nice weekend to me

Actually… no i want to see stereo speakers not double hernias! :smile:

We all know that good speaker sound is very dependent upon good acoustic interaction with the room where they are placed, so would be nice to see a bit of the room environment and in relation to speaker placement.

I envy you having the floor space that can use the 100s, my music room is a modest 27 square foot so i’m considering SMC40A which are [ only ? ] 36 kilos each :sweat_smile: :sweat_drops:

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That’s day two of the ATC active 100’s demo underway … I posted earlier that they are a very accurate speaker, if somewhat more “forward” sounding than I’m used to with the Neats.

It seems to me that the Neats have more “weight” in their presentation, which contradicts what I was expecting with active speakers, whilst they also seem to connect better on an emotional level.

I know this will read as being a bit vague and wooly, but that’s how it seems to me.

My missus, who has been proven to have much better ears than me, when it comes to analysing sound, will have a listen later, and we’ll have to see what conclusion she reaches, completely unprompted by me.

Tomorrow, I’ll drag the Neats out of the music room, and position the ATC’s properly … who knows, they may then come into their own? :thinking:

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Hi Dave, very interesting to read what your findings are.

A couple of questions since I’m also contemplating ATC active speakers.

  • What are your room dimensions?
  • Have you considered the ATC50A?
  • Could you post a picture of the speakers in your room?

My room is about 54m2 and in future will be extended to about 60-65m2. I was wondering whether the 100s would be simply too much speaker for the room.

Hi, Tom,

I have a dedicated music room, which is approximately 10m X 6m, though the listening position is about 5m from the speakers.

I have a 500DR power amp lined up in a few weeks time, and simply had a “what if” moment, to see how active speakers might compare. My dealer had a pair of 100’s available for home demo, so I just went with those.

That’s the home demo of the active 100’s completed, and the outcome is somewhat unexpected, to say the least.

I removed my existing Neats from the music room in order to give the ATC’s a proper outing, and enlisted the help of my missus, whose ears are far superior to mine, when it comes to analysing sound and music.

Her conclusions, unprompted, were broadly the same as my own, in that, surprisingly, the active speakers sounded rather flat and uninvolving, compared to the Neats.

I had expected the ATC’s, with their onboard amps, to be more dynamic than my passive speakers, but the Neats were the clear winners.

I’m not sure that this tells you much about active v passive, but I do know that, similar to Mr. Kipling, Bob Surgeoner at Neat does make exceedingly good speakers.

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The thing with speakers is they all have their own characters, and some people like the character of one, some another. From the description here of the ATCs, it may be that they are more neutral than the Neats, and you and your wife like what the Neats add - but that is a simply a guess as I don’t know the Neats (the ATCs are fabled for their accuracy). Alternatively, picking up another comment of yours regarding ‘weight’, given that your roo is very large it may be that the SCM150 may be better than the 100 as their bass extends lower.

As you knew they would be Dave. Your conclusions are exactly what I was expecting, the ATC’s are mighty fine speakers but they are deadly accurate and factual. If that’s what you want then they are perfect for you.

However if you want musical enjoyment then the Neats are going to be for you. What the Neats add is the dynamics, fun factor if you want to call it that. They dig out emotion and connect you to the music in a way that the ATC’s just can’t.

If you remember my long thread, many moons ago when after listening to many speakers I went for the Neats, the one comment that sticks with me is that the Neat MF9’s just paint a 3d picture of music in front of you.

Now just imagine how much better that picture is going to be with a Naim 500 DR painting it?

Kind regards

PB

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:open_mouth::open_mouth:

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I await the next thread with eager anticipation Dave :slight_smile:

The expression “foregone conclusion” springs to mind.:joy:

You and I have very similar musical tastes and musical preferences Dave. You have a Naim front end and amps for a reason and its obvious where you will end up. I know as I have made the same journey and its great to see you enjoying yours.

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Well, you’ve satisfied your curiosity, Dave. Confirming that the Neats still please you (and the wife) is a positive thing, even if unexpected. So the demo was worth doing. Of course, you can now be more confident about the power amp upgrade route. :grinning:

Mike

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Yes, Mike,

I was gently trundling towards that 500 DR, when an alternative occurred to me, so it’s certainly been worthwhile trying out active speakers, and Nigel’s views, above, concerning accuracy v musical enjoyment, ring true, well, to these ageing ears, anyway.:wink:

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I’d trade accuracy for musical enjoyment every day of the week, Dave. Most of us don’t listen to our systems to admire the technical correctness of the thing but for the emotional connection to the music.
Mike

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Very fun for me to read along, and so happy that you were able to do the in-home audition. We auditioned in-home 2 sets of speakers back in December-early January, and there truly is no substitute for living with speakers for a few days! And no substitute for having a partner who has good ears and is willing to indulge in a ‘critical listening’ exercise. (Actually I just ask my wife to listen and tell me what she thinks; she’s not shy.)

I have a feeling that the predictions will be MUCH easier in your next “which one” thread.

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Yes, but there always is a line where ‘musicality’ can cross over into something unpleasant, especially over time.

“Accuracy” need not mean “boring,” and “musical” need not mean “musical.” And I found that these adjectives are pretty room dependent. The speakers I ordered a few months ago were a little too close to the “accurate = boring” line at the dealer’s, but in my home, with a very lively room, they came alive. Where as some “musical” speakers are just too much after a while and actually bring on fatigue, imho and experience.

I definitely require that “emotional” connection; we know it when we hear it right?!?!

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Interesting comments about neutrality or accuracy vs not but with colouration people find desirable. Whilst the fact of different preference is undeniable, and liking one over the other is not a matter of right or wrong, i have to challenge the implication that the coloured sound is inherently more capable of conveying the emotion of music. Music has its emotional content as written and as played by the musicians. If recorded accurately, and reproduced accurately, the emotion clearly should ocnvey itself to the listener in the same way, Distorting that in some way - e.g. by emphasising the beat through emphasis of mid bass (or whatever), as might help induce toe tapping, is not conveying the emotion of the music, unless the rhythm is what people perceive as emotion. For me, emphasis of the beat can detract from the depth of the music, whereas hearing the music unadulterated all in its glory can do the opposite - and it has nothing to de with listening analytically, because I don’t. Maybe my lack of fixation with toe tapping explains my dislike of far more music than I like - and also why I struggle auditioning music because it is so easy to becdrawn into the music and forget I am supposed to be comparing things.

Having said that, as I haven”t heard either I don’t know what I’d make of either the ATCs or the Neats, though I suspect the ATCs might win - that midrange unit makes the human voice sound so real.

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Interesting journey Dave. Although you clearly have a preference for the ‘sound signature’ of your Neat MF9s, it is apparent you are also hearing the difference between Naim passive amplification and ATC active amplification. In fact the system architecture (after the pre amp) of Naim/Neat passive is entirely different to ATC active. So it is obviously not just the difference in the speakers you are hearing.

The only question to answer now is whether you are going to prefer the 500DR over your 300DR. Umm…I wonder…:thinking:

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