You and I have very similar musical tastes and musical preferences Dave. You have a Naim front end and amps for a reason and its obvious where you will end up. I know as I have made the same journey and its great to see you enjoying yours.
1 Like
Well, you’ve satisfied your curiosity, Dave. Confirming that the Neats still please you (and the wife) is a positive thing, even if unexpected. So the demo was worth doing. Of course, you can now be more confident about the power amp upgrade route. 
Mike
1 Like
Yes, Mike,
I was gently trundling towards that 500 DR, when an alternative occurred to me, so it’s certainly been worthwhile trying out active speakers, and Nigel’s views, above, concerning accuracy v musical enjoyment, ring true, well, to these ageing ears, anyway.
2 Likes
I’d trade accuracy for musical enjoyment every day of the week, Dave. Most of us don’t listen to our systems to admire the technical correctness of the thing but for the emotional connection to the music.
Mike
6 Likes
Very fun for me to read along, and so happy that you were able to do the in-home audition. We auditioned in-home 2 sets of speakers back in December-early January, and there truly is no substitute for living with speakers for a few days! And no substitute for having a partner who has good ears and is willing to indulge in a ‘critical listening’ exercise. (Actually I just ask my wife to listen and tell me what she thinks; she’s not shy.)
I have a feeling that the predictions will be MUCH easier in your next “which one” thread.
1 Like
Yes, but there always is a line where ‘musicality’ can cross over into something unpleasant, especially over time.
“Accuracy” need not mean “boring,” and “musical” need not mean “musical.” And I found that these adjectives are pretty room dependent. The speakers I ordered a few months ago were a little too close to the “accurate = boring” line at the dealer’s, but in my home, with a very lively room, they came alive. Where as some “musical” speakers are just too much after a while and actually bring on fatigue, imho and experience.
I definitely require that “emotional” connection; we know it when we hear it right?!?!
1 Like
Interesting comments about neutrality or accuracy vs not but with colouration people find desirable. Whilst the fact of different preference is undeniable, and liking one over the other is not a matter of right or wrong, i have to challenge the implication that the coloured sound is inherently more capable of conveying the emotion of music. Music has its emotional content as written and as played by the musicians. If recorded accurately, and reproduced accurately, the emotion clearly should ocnvey itself to the listener in the same way, Distorting that in some way - e.g. by emphasising the beat through emphasis of mid bass (or whatever), as might help induce toe tapping, is not conveying the emotion of the music, unless the rhythm is what people perceive as emotion. For me, emphasis of the beat can detract from the depth of the music, whereas hearing the music unadulterated all in its glory can do the opposite - and it has nothing to de with listening analytically, because I don’t. Maybe my lack of fixation with toe tapping explains my dislike of far more music than I like - and also why I struggle auditioning music because it is so easy to becdrawn into the music and forget I am supposed to be comparing things.
Having said that, as I haven”t heard either I don’t know what I’d make of either the ATCs or the Neats, though I suspect the ATCs might win - that midrange unit makes the human voice sound so real.
3 Likes
Interesting journey Dave. Although you clearly have a preference for the ‘sound signature’ of your Neat MF9s, it is apparent you are also hearing the difference between Naim passive amplification and ATC active amplification. In fact the system architecture (after the pre amp) of Naim/Neat passive is entirely different to ATC active. So it is obviously not just the difference in the speakers you are hearing.
The only question to answer now is whether you are going to prefer the 500DR over your 300DR. Umm…I wonder…
1 Like
I know I’m likely to be flamed but personally I find it difficult to see past the x 3 difference in cost between 300 and 500.
Without having heard a 500 DR I can’t conceive the difference could be worth the cost differential.
Currently working off a 552/300DR/SL2 I’m looking towards Kii 3 and Dutch 8c rather than 500 DR as possible upgrade routes.
I cannot seem to get past the thought that the price of a 500DR is just taking the p1ss as much as I love Naim.
.sjb
What made the 552 not a p1ss take vs the 500 that you consider to be a p1ss take as the retail price is the same give or take a few ££’s. As an owner of a 552/300 system I am interested in your comments as one day I guess a 500DR will enter my system.
Over double but not three times and as we know, the higher you go, the more expensive real improvements become. That said, the 500 has an authority, delicacy, texture and expressiveness the 300 can’t match. It was the delicacy that immediately won me over.
1 Like
FWIW, in Hi-Fi News & Record Review’s April edition (wherein they review the ND555), they also reviewed a pair of £36k ATC SCM100SE (Special Edition) speakers. They scored them 82/100.
The narrative points to highly revealing speakers, which can render some poor quality recordings unlistenable. As other posts suggest, it’s very much a case of YMMV.
IIRC, debates around musicality and colouration always arise when studio monitor speakers are discussed - and many of the mags I’ve read over the years always add riders about domestic usage when reviewing these.
Hard to say where one gets one’s perceptions from. I don’t think I’d be buying a 552 today, I have mine since 2008. It was proportionally less expensive then. The price increases since then in non evolving products has been breathtaking.
At every other step in the Naim hierarchy the corresponding power amp is less expensive than the pre/ps.
Just can’t see the value with new products like Kii and Dutch and Dutch appearing.
We all (I presume) have what we cannot afford (Statement for me) and what we cannot justify (500 for me). I couldn’t get past the feeling of being screwed coughing up £20,000 for one.
Obviously other mileages vary considerably.
.sjb
1 Like
I’m very surprised someone finds active ATC’s flat and uninvolving. To me this would seem like a problem in front end since ATC’s are only playing back what they’re fed with extreme accuracy and control but I think this can’t be the case with your setup.
I recently moved from nDAC (with psu) + SN2 (with psu) + passive SCM40’s to Linn ADSM Katalyst + active SCM40’s. Before this I had SCM19A in home demo for ~three weeks and I played them with various DAC/pre-amps, including 272 and many others. With lesser front ends they could sound uninvolving and clinical but with better front-ends, world class sound and musicality.
Now after few weeks of listening ADSM + 40A’s, the setup is on completely different level than my midrange Naim-setup before. There’s tons of more dynamics, separation, air, speed and power… and I must repeat power because there’s so much more power and effortlessness in the sound. SN2 clearly couldn’t keep up with the passive 40’s after all. Yes, the sound is also more accurate and some poorer recordings are not as easy to listen as before, but my old setup was way too comfortable and smooth sounding. I didn’t realize this until I heard everything I was missing before. No listening fatigue with the current setup so all the detail, control and separation is very much welcome.
Your Neats must be stunning speakers. I have never heard this model.
Sloop,
A few months ago I went with a friend to listen to the Kii and D&D 8c; the three of us preferred the D&D, we also agree that whilst they are good speakers for all three of us we felt they would be very much a sideways move.
Like you I am FAR from convinced of Naim’s pricing …but, I do think their current range is the best they have ever produced, and the 552/500 is at the heart of one of the best systems I have heard.
M
2 Likes
Indeed I may be disappointed when I do get to hear the Kii and Dutch, but TBH to get rid of 2 banks of humming toroidal transformers I’d probably accept a sideways step.
I’m not suggesting the 500DR wouldn’t give me an improvement and I’d gladly acccept a donation of one but as I’ve said here before…
…there’s a lot of good wine to be bought for the 300/500 differential 
.sjb
1 Like
…and after drinking enough wine one won’t tell the difference! 
<>
NAP 500s are a far better value for money buy as pre-owned or ex-demo from a dealer (?)
It takes the heat out of the brand spanking new price tag : )
1 Like
Oh yes, they’re quite something.
IB, I like what you say. It beginning to resonate with me. The emotion is in most recordings, and strange things can happen when music is not rendered as it sounded in the studio. Sometimes it remains emotional in different ways, but ultimately it nice to get an uncoloured rendering.
Phil
Worth a try anyway Dave. Nothing ventured etc… FWIW, I recently auditioned SCM50A’s vs Kudos707 & then 808 and I think found much the same as yourself. I listened to the ATC’s first and for about 30-40 mins. I think I cycled through 12 or 15 tracks in that time, never feeling the need or desire to listen through to the end of a single one. Uninspiring, sadly. I’m not even sure I agree with the oft used epithet of ‘Accurate’ as a description of what I heard in that ATC dem. I heard well controlled treble and bass (though rather too much of the latter) but the midrange was dull and recessed. To me, that’s not accuracy. Move on.
Just don’t listen to a pair of 808’s…
2 Likes