Hi Dunc, problem with the Facts is, that they most likely won’t go as close to the front wall as the 808s ( got mine 115 cmtrs from wall measured from back plate) . With greater distance to sidewalls it would of course be less, but even in my old large space they were 60 cmtrs from front wall. Depth wise they are actually as deep cabinet wise as the 808s. Tim has also expressed previously, that he very much likes the Kudos-sound. ATB Peter
Really
Yes apparently they will offer the upgrade, better components and isolation from the fenestria apparently
See what you are saying, but its an option still
Well the 808s are fine all of 4.5 inches from the wall. If facts have to come any distance from the wall that would not work here.
And I have loved all of the Titans I have heard - there is something about them that I prefer to everything else I have heard in recent years. I am terrible at describing the sound of different components (just like I am terrible at describing different tastes in coffee - my wife can come up with the toffee / plums / etc descriptions when I just say ) so cannot say exactly what it is I like - and I don’t know for example why a friend’s B&W 802d3s do nothing for me
This weekend I haven’t been able to turn the volume up much - teenager and wifely disapproval. But I should get chance tomorrow. On Friday turning the volume up gave a shouty / screechy sort of noise that wasn’t good so am hoping that that will settle down soon (or maybe already has). The bass has already improved greatly - it was definitely flabby when Pete was here very early on, but no more.
Currently listening to a cd (well ripped via the core) I bought in about 1992 and have never heard the guitar like I can at the moment.
I have just looked at PMC’s website. The fact 12s are available only in white (no) or metallic graphite (also no)? That’s not much choice!
Bit of Fablon will sort that out!
I really like the fact 12’s they sound great. But the new finish is really poor imo. They look like a kitchen worktop…but these are £15 k speakers. I raised this with their rep and they had to move from one supplier to another and the resultant finish, it must be hitting sales hard. At the launch PMC said the previous fact could not be upgraded, i guess they have had to change their mind.
I’m certain it’s hitting sales of the Fact 12. They’re tremendous speakers with astonishingly good sound, especially for their size, but with only two painted finishes now PMC has lost the plot IMO. They used to offer some gorgeous veneered finishes, including zebrano.
Clive , the zebrano was a lovely finish indeed.
Thats why I mentioned getting the older ones, as more choices in finish, plus if they do give the upgrade crossovers as an option, then that makes the older ones even better, as its only the crossovers that are different.
It was ok for me as I wanted the grey finish as it goes well with the rest off the room and now fraim
Peculiar though, as PMC are able to deliver their other ranges in wood veneer I also pushed TB for a xover upgrade to Signature spec. , when he was here recently. ATB Peter
I think TB has been getting this in the neck since launch…i spoke to him just after launch so i guess he must be just as frustrated. But it does indicate that no replacement any time soon,
When I was having my record player tinkered with, Peter played one or two select tracks from Nils Lofgren’s live album. The grip of the 808’s on the guitar was astonishing. And yes, I returned home to my 802d3’s!!
Peter
It is a great sounding album, I have it on mofi vinyl and it sounds amazing, think it makes most systems sound good lol
The 808’s just have that “extra” in the bass department that make them very appealing to me. Really fantastic when pushed hard. Placement seems to be working in Tim’s space which is a good thing for such a large speaker. The 808’s will be hard to beat here, imo…
Morning all. Firstly, thanks to all for your contributions - this is a fun thread for me to participate in, and I am very grateful for everyone’s comments (even including those that I found a bit daft ).
Secondly, I didn’t do much listening yesterday with my wife and daughter in the house - and watching the Grand Prix, plus quite a long chat on the phone with Martin, a local Naim friend (full 500 system into B&W 802d3s). But I did a lot of thinking about the various choices.
The key decision (which actually applies to the thread title for the first time in ages - but not quite directly) is that I have decided that active is not happening. I have worked out that I need to have 12 shelves without going active, and going active would push me up to 15 I think. 15 is just too much (that would be with 3x250s) and I am conscious that all the extra cables make cable dressing much harder, there are more cables across the floor (with stone floors there is little chance to hide them) and I need to rein in my excessive nature a bit to help mitigate the stress I have placed on my wife by importing two “monstrosities” into the house or at least not continue to take liberties with her delightful tolerance of my excesses
I am currently minded to keep the 808s as I think any remaining concerns are likely to be blown away by a bit more time on them
So, to giving something back to my wife I am considering moving the racks to the right of the right speaker - which has some advantages and disadvantages
Here is the room (with the forbidden bit of the 808s hidden as I have been requested to do)
Apologies for the glare from the sofa… anyway the advantage of moving to the right of the right speaker is that the racks will then help the whole system sort of be in a line down one side of the room and less in your face as you enter the room from the kitchen (though more in your face as you enter from the hallway). As the fraim is deeper the 808s could then be moved out slightly if that helps without them sticking out.
The big plus is the extra freedom to my wife to use the wall to the left for an armchair - we have the opportunity to have a great u-shaped seating area that has not before been possible, helping the room to be a more welcoming space. It will (Covid permitting) in time become more of an entertaining space
One quite big advantage is the cats won’t use the fraim and nd555 as a platform on the way to the windowsill. I ran through a few permutations of possible shelving in the current location and all would look a bit messy / asymmetrical and provide tempting launch material for the cats
Another advantage is that at the moment the size of the 808s means the left one is rather too close to the front of the fraim and the lp12 - moving the racks gets rid of that. And the mains strip (to the right of the right rack on the floor) is now even less accessible than with the SL2s which I wouldn’t have believed possible as you had to remove the lp12 and the shelf below to get to it. Another plus is moving the boxes away from the router
Which brings me on to the two main downsides - the need to get Ethernet to the switch / nd555 and, although there is a double mains socket in the new location it is not the made-for-hifi single spur that is under the window. The Ethernet can be sorted with a single cable run but the mains is trickier. Martin was telling me it is possible to get high quality shielded mains cable that could have a long run, but I could also / instead consider shoving an audioquest niagara with the system (after a bit more saving up) as that ought to compensate.
If anyone has any thoughts please do let me know - based on prior comments I will probably despair at some of them but find others helpful
If the move happens then I would aim to have two full fat fraim (one of my current racks is fraim lite plus glass and balls) racks at five shelves each, each with a pair of medium legs somewhere to balance the height (have one set already) ready for the 500. Then the left rack would have the nd555, 552, Melco n1z, 300 head, EE switch and melco ripper - and the Right hand (not nec in this order) Lp12, Radikal, 552ps, 555ps, 300ps
Ah - just realised that doesn’t allow for a second 555ps or audioquest so six shelves are required in each of two stacks (And again I am reinforced in the no active 250x3 route because I simply don’t have the space for it, as well as being unsure of the benefit). The “need” for six shelves isn’t a problem (in my world ) as that gets each quite close to the height of the 808s and so balances that out. Having the lp12 at a reasonable height sure helps as I am getting older too so I don’t have to bend over too much
That’s a longer post than I intended. Hope it makes sense - interested if anyone knows if getting a shielded, long mains cable from the hifi spur is a goer and / or if an audioquest niagara might “fill the hole” in that respect
Over to you - Santana sounding good at the moment (ok better than good - the bass is so effortless now)
For what it’s worth fir ethernet in the front room i ran an exterior cable hidden in trunking. We conveniently have an air brick for our log burner…the cable neatly goes through the air brick, no drilling, extra holes. I mention just in case you have an air brick conveniently sited and not thought about it.
I think you have thought it out well.
Tim, I think that moving the Fraims to the right is a really good idea, especially for the poor old LP12. I’d be very cautious about running the system of the house mains and even more cautious about a conditioner. Presumably you don’t want to channel the walls to move the spur, but an option might be to run it out of the back of the existing socket and round the outside of the house using steel walled armoured (SWA) cable. It can be buried underground and would hardly be visible. Your room is a good size and the speakers don’t look too large at all. I’m pleased it seems to be working out for you.
Morning, Tim,
It looks as if the 500 is waiting in the wings to make an appearance, and that Pete will be making the trip from Chester in the near(ish) future.
That’s what my money would have been on from the start of your odyssey.
Just one thing though, I would definitely have your 552, rather than the ND555 on the top of your left stack, as I’ve always felt it performs best with as much fresh air around it as possible. Anyway, see what Pete thinks on that one.
The fun just never stops, does it?