I’m still thinking that the right route here is improving the source with a power supply on the NDX2 (even a ND555 as an end goal) and moving to a 252 or 552. It should be remembered that the Naim pre and power amps work as a pair. A 300 DR on a 252 or 552 will deliver plenty of grip, particularly at low volume. I’ve been up this exact path and heard how the improvement in amplification improves the bass by a large margin.
Indeed fiddle with the room, but given that the room and speakers are staying, source and amplification is the solution within the Naim eco-system.
I am a great fan of active multi-amping, with direct coupling of each speaker driver to its own amp, without a passive crossover in between. I am sceptical about the merits of passive multi-amping, and If an amp isn’t giving the grip required on full range, I don’t see how it can if just relegated to bass (or treble, but bass is where the issue lies) - however if you already have a spare amp, there is nothing to be lost trying it.
If it’s a speaker-room interaction issue, then the obvious first step which you have probably already tried is to experiment with re-positioning the speakers.
Once you have eliminated this, the next step may be to try speaker isolation feet or platforms such as the Townshend Podium, Isoacoustic Gaia or Herbies products. These can be tried on a sale or return basis. Their benefit is room (especially floor) dependent but can be quite remarkable. A number of Naim Forum members, including us, use one or other of these to great effect.
Could be worth a try before spending a lot more money on electronics.
Best regards, BF
The 803 is a 3-way speaker, so for full active you need to tri-amp (3 stereo amps), with 3-way axo, taking out the internal passive xo. (N.B. I’ve no idea how readily the passive xo can be removed - with some speakers it is easy, others not.) I suppose you could potentially go partially active if you can remove the bass part of the passive xo, leaving mid and treble still using the passive xo. Direct control of the bass driver(s) is likely to sound noticeably better than passive with one of the same amps, but whether active driving of the bass drivers would completely solve your issue I can’t predict with certainty. Of course you need the axo crossover frequencies/frequency in particular to suit the speaker, i.e as in the passive original, and ideally the roll-off slopes also to be as B&W designed.
@lamby2244 If you like the Naim thing your best option would be 350 monos. They’ve got the power and current capability your B&W’s need, actually more power than the 500DR. Maybe a dealer will let borrow them, or bring them over to try? Then you could buy the rest of the new 300 bits. No reason you can’t do it back to front. And regardless what anyone who thinks they’re an expert says, it’s your money do what you want.
Whilst from the terminology this may seem counter-intuitive, in effect, where lack of bass is due to cancellations in the room, then bass traps can reduce or stop the reflections causing the cancellations, and so increase the bass at that/those frequencies. At the same time traps reduce excessive reverberation time, making the bass ‘faster’ and cleaner.
@opus thank you. I think the point I have tried to make is that since about 1998 when I bought my first arcam based system I have build front to back the middle out, back to front. I have just been playing with what I love and find my way. I am not an engineer, I am an artist who loves tech and appreciate these forums because they fill the gap in my knowledge. I try to ignore the judgements that come - personally I believe in kindness and compassion but get that a bit of tech banter is all par for the course.
I demoed the 350s and they were astoundingly good even with a bare NDX2 .
So here’s the balance of things other than the room set up. Which I am going to look at first. Bowers engineer told me that of course looking at source is a good idea but it will only give 20% of what I want, his view is that amplification is the route…… on here there are many voices saying source first is the route to find the answer and that concurs with my dealer (who has a 555ps to offload ).
Some have pointed to how statement is the only Naim product that drive these well. That doesn’t map to the views of either dealer or Bowers but of course the point is that these speakers can play at that level. It is also not my demo experience- the 300dr managed well.
Thanks for the input. I have lots to play with - and who cares which path I take - it’s my path and I am enjoying myself. I haven’t lost anything I have just gained…. Just not all I expected.
I’m sure B&W know that their speakers require powerful amplification, and I think their advice is probably right. You just have to accept that as you move to more powerful speakers, you also get a more revealing system which will expose the relative weakness of the source.
If the amp upgrade was your final move a rethink of the whole system might have been appropriate so ensure that you and up with something well balanced and enjoyable. As you intend to investigate source upgrades too, I don’t think there’s a problem - just more goodness to follow after another emptying of your bank account!
Thanks for filling my gap in knowledge- this sounds like a lot of effort, if even possible. I guess I can try passive at no cost. Seems on doing a little research it mostly creates some undesired results.
Yes more cash but lots of fun. My plan was always to shift the rest of the system and maybe move to new classic 300. However people seem to be pointing in another direction here.
I think you’ll be fine with a pair of 350s! As it happens I heard a demo a few weeks ago of 801s powered by New Classic 350s, and while they weren’t my favourite speakers on show at the time, they certainly didn’t sound underpowered.
You’re learning the hard way. The one thing you should always do before buying hifi is to listen at home.
The size and shape of a room, along with the amount and type of furnishings, will have a massive bearing on the sound.
When the curtains in my listening room were changed to vertical blinds it had a startling impact on the bass levels in the room, so much do that I had to play around with speaker positioning.
Hope you get on top of things without having to spend huge amounts. One thing I’ve learned in my 45 years of the hifi hobby is the sum of the parts, more often than not, yield better results than a single “dream” component.
Is there an easy way. Yes home demo is a great idea if possible. I have learned that deeply and hope others can read this thread.
The funny thing is that an NDX2 and a 250 were a dream at one point and the 300DR was not even something I could consider… it’s all based on perspective.
I am I think seeing I am at the top of the speaker tree (for me) and the rest of the system needs to catch up.
The design of a really good passive crossover for multi-amplification is complex. Naim has always been in favour of active filtering, the first SBL, and no doubt DBL, were initially produced for active use; the SBL, DBL, mono-amplification filters for passive use came later.
I know friends who have B&W 802 and 804, each driven by two Nap 250s in bi-passive mode; they no longer want the amplification with a single amp. On my Linn Isobarik I have three Nap 250 Olive in passive tri-amplification it’s much better than 2 X 135; even with two Nap 250 it’s more than 135. For 25 years, according to what was explained, I thought that passive bi-amplification was less compatible, except that good passive filters with real separate cells like B&W and Linn play perfectly with Naim!
You have to be able to listen to see for yourself.
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