Thx for sharing your experiences. Very interesting. Looking the 3 system set-ups you talking about, I think the Nova PE with passive PMC’s or ATC’s would also be a nice road of comparing.
I’m waiting a nearby dealer having a Nova PE to do the test with PMC’s.
Thanks for sharing.
In context, the whole statement…
The SCM20ASLT has a better tweeter.
The SCM40’s use the SH25-76 HF unit whereas the SCM20’s use the higher spec’ Super SH25-76S.
The active 20 towers also have better quality cabinet build (stiffer, heavier too) and larger amplifiers.
The super linear SL specification mid / bass driver is no slouch. It does an excellent job.
A hypothesis, maybe the sum of these parts comes together and works really well, as a whole?
Technical specifications and other physics things aside, always rely on what my old cloth ears tell me. The active 20 towers are actually pretty good.
It would be great to hear from others - with first hand experience - and explain why the active 20 Tower sounds a better speaker, (compared to 40A’s ). @Patu makes a decent effort. Thank you 
It would be ideal to hear an opinion from anyone that has actually done this comparison.
Using “search”, only one forum member @Jukemark has recent experience of owning a pair of active 20 towers.
Always been an advocate for finding out, allowing ears to listen and decide after careful thought, based on actual experience.
Best wishes
R
Hi @silverback
Thanks again for the encouragement.
As mentioned previously , intention is always to share something useful and give something back to the forum. Hopefully, others might benefit from the accounts.
One of the themes of this thread is the symbiotic relationship between a great dealer and customers on a longer term journey, building a system. As always, trust ( and benefits) works both ways.
Yes, now looking at active options.
Currently have the PMC Twenty5 23i in our house, for home loan, etc. Will likely pick one of the active options.
Considering our source, with a decent preamp and active speakers, feel that’s a more desirable sound, compared to other passive options.
Adding a pre-loved NAC282 might suit us fine 
The newer NAC332 is a super product, maybe better and doesn’t need an external power supply. But costs a lot more 
Sure, tried to be fair about this for readers.
Experience of really high end systems, they naturally lean towards accurate, transparent, energetic, forward, anyway. ( As more music / information is revealed. @silverback For example, improvement in SQ when add psu to nDAC ). Maybe you’ve experienced this at dealer demo, or events, hifi shows, friends, etc. Active is same direction. For my part, having lived with things, find it difficult to go backwards now.
Maybe try it.
Working with a great dealer - a key theme of the thread - should allow at least a couple of days with loan speakers, to explore for yourself.
Probably best
In our case, feel we need to add speakers first, as this kinda makes the system complete, (for now). But also plotting next few moves too. Which is likely to be PSU for nDAC. Then maybe swapping SN3 for NAC282, ( or better). Hence careful considerations, to ensure it all works.
VFM is always a key consideration (in our house)…
System building on a shoe string, LOL 
Good luck and keep sharing.
Also curious to follow your own journey too.
R
edit : p.s. Agreed. The PMC Twenty5 23i are great looking compact speakers.
edit 2 : @silverback added an extra thought, the example of adding psu, to nDAC.
I think you listed the reasons in your post
It’s also always about system and room matching. 20ASLT will be easier to fit in the room because of less low bass output, which could excite the room.
Anyway, you can’t go wrong with either one. They’re both extremely good speakers.
Morning ratrat many thanks for your response, I do feel we are following similar goals maybe with slightly different paths, as usual your approach is very well thought out.
I will be very interested to hear your thoughts regarding the home loan of the 23i’s, these were my first thoughts, when shown an image to my wife she was more than happy especially when I told her they were much smaller than our 26’s, I would guess they would work pretty well in our room (5.5mx3.5m), so for me probably top of my list so far.
I had planned to add a 250dr in the very near future but thinking that I may hold off for the moment.
I have booked a Sunday ticket for the Northern Hifi show in a couple of weeks so will hopefully get to hear the PMC’s in the flesh, plus probably the ATC’s as well, I know it’s not the same but still looking forward to a day out.
You mention psu for the ndac, after some research it seems the non dr version would be the favoured option, old yes but more cost effective and from a lot of accounts seems to marry with the ndac better than the later dr version but personally I have no experience of either so only going by other members thoughts and opinions.
Great thread await your further updates on your progress, again excellent and informative as usual, cheers.
Great post and thanks for update on your own thoughts.
Have now listened and studied both XPS DR and 555 PS, ( back at Basically Sound). Already shared thoughts on those two options. (I’ll find them and post here).
Thoughts on first psu listen : XPS DR …
Thoughts on second psu listen : 555 PS DR …
Yes, Naim lore suggests 555 PS (non DR) is a better match. More “natural”.
Costs effective we like
But can’t help with any personal experience on that one.
Good luck at the show
Do share anything interesting you see or hear?
BW
R
edit : @silverback there you go - thoughts on psu - for nDAC. Hope that helps?
Many thanks for forwarding your other post, again excellent write up.
Not sure regarding the psu, I’ve had mixed feelings in the past, adding the napsc to the 202 I thought was amazing upgrade for the vfm but adding the much more expensive hicapdr I was less convinced, most people say it makes a huge difference but for me that wasn’t the case, have intended to remove it and let the 200dr power the 282 just haven’t got round to trying it yet, perhaps I would appreciate the difference much more, not sure.
I have been hopeful that my local dealer would get a xps or xpsdr in trade so I could borrow for a listen at home just to get a first hand experience of the benefits but from your comments which are very positive regarding adding a psu to the ndac I may take a punt later and purchase one, so many options, this is when it is so helpful to have advice from yourself and other forum members.
Again many thanks for taking the time to reply very much appreciated.
My own personal experience of 25.23 not i version is that they are very easy to position and as you have pointed out they are surprisingly compact for such a big sounding speaker. My room layout meant that I had to have them pretty much against a wall and distance between them was somewhere between 1.7 and 2 m. Even with these constraints they sounded good. The i version is better according to most reviews, active well they appear to be good as well. For me although the ATC sounded good in a dealer demo I knew that they were just a tad too big to fit into my constrained room. You may well have more flexibility. Enjoy your day listening at the North West Audio Show.
I got a pair of active PMC Twenty5 23i’s last week after having a demo at the dealers. They are hooked up to my Atom HE and I love them. They sound just as good in my medium’ish sized room as they did at the dealers.
I’ve been all round the houses trying to decide what to replace my old set up with but with some help from you guys on here I ended up with a really good, compact, one box system that I’m really happy with. Thanks to all who contributed.
I can’t really compare the 23’s with anything because I’ve not heard any other speakers in the same price range but I like them so much I may never need to upgrade them. I love the whole system, it looks great, it sounds great and now I can get down to listening and enjoying music. No more intrusive upgrade thoughts for me (at least for a while ?NSC 222 and PSU😀)
Nice
Be reassured, you’ve picked a great pair of speakers.
Think you might have auditioned several comparable speakers and still picked those PMC’s, that good 
Congratulations
R
Something else in the house, to try.
This time, small print says “PMC” .
Another photo snap, this time from the listening position.
Current situation, with low evening sun illuminating things.
Best wishes
R
Morning ratrat I know it’s still early days but curious to hear how your auditioning is going with the 23i’s, I know you will post your findings just very interested to get your first impressions
Hi @silverback
Hello again and always happy to share thoughts and ideas…
Have been enjoying the 23i’s at home - as passive - since the weekend.
It’s maybe just my OCD. Thought it best to get to know these speakers as passive first.
That’s going well. As suggested above, they are a very different presentation compared to ATC speakers. Maybe missing the ATC mids a bit. So we ( me and my best mate, my wife) are making that adjustment too. But other things these PMC’s do well instead.
Next step, is to convert over to active, which takes maybe 5-10 minutes each speakers, to swap out the passive cross over and back panel, for active modules. Yes, will obviously share more in time.
Any particular reason for asking ?
In the meantime - can say with certainty - already decided to go active direction, one way or another.
Best wishes
R
Many thanks for the reply, totally understand using the 23’s in passive mode first to acclimatise makes sense.
The reason for asking, unfortunately I have tinnitus comes from the best part of my life working in heavy industry, generally I can live with it but my audiologist suggested that I limit the frequent high level listening sessions, which makes sense, unfortunately my 26’s seem similar to the ATC 40’s in that they like a bit up them , so to speak, to bring them to life.
Hence my interest in the 23’s, voices seem to cause me the most issues, guessing that part of my range is very sensitive to distortion or that how it seems, so really looking for something that works at lower levels plus the occasional mad blast, in a controlled way of cause .
Hence the curiosity of your findings so far, hope that makes sense and looking forward to your further updates, cheers.
Okay
First, sorry to read about all that.
But something positive, to share straight away…
We’ve already identified one thing we really like about these 23i’s (both passive and active)…
They play really well at lower listening levels…
When listening with my best mate (my wife) which we do a lot, most nights. From choice, we tend to listen at mostly lower volumes. Without getting overly technical, they are able to articulate music nicely at lower levels, which we really like.
Funny, but earlier shared progress with Tony @BasicallySound - by email - this is what was said in reply. Copy below…
Hi Tony
Can report I’ve persisted to the point where the passive version ( of PMC 23i ) sounds sweet again.
One thing that has impressed us is low level listening. Maybe 7 o clock on the SN3 volume dial. This speaker seems to articulate music much better as lower volumes. When we listen together, it’s usually lower like this.
For me, I’d be up at 9, 9:30 or even occasionally 10 o clock
It’s very a nice speaker
And she (mrs ratrat) prefers this compact floorstander.
Think the aesthetics really work in our room ( for her )
I’m definitely missing the ATC mids. But other things work well on this PMC
I’m going to make the change to active modules maybe soon
BW
R
Hope all that helps.
R
Thanks for your reply, I’m happy that I’ve reached the age I have in one piece, cat and 9 lives comes to mind but that’s a different story
My tinnitus just makes tweeking and upgrades sometimes a challenge, I still play my music loud but tend to wander around in the kitchen popping back into the lounge for a quick burst .
Joking aside appreciate your reply and the good news regarding the performance of the 23’s, looking at your volume levels I think we are pretty similar.
One thing that has surprised me I do like to listen a lower level from time to time and find it really relaxing just struggle to hear some of the detail but generally the track I choose tends to determine the replay level, in fact just had a very quick blast of Usher (I have very varied music tastes) not too loud kept it at 9 o clock ish.
As you mentioned aesthetics my wife seemed to view the 23’s very favourably not so much the 40’s, think the metal grills and the extra width of the cabinet doesn’t help.
Many thanks again for taking the time to reply much appreciated, cheers.
Looking forward to more upcoming posts of your journey .
I think the whole “ATCs really need to be played at high volume” thing is a bit misleading. I myself have been accused of saying just that on this forum and foolishly misunderstanding just what is and isn’t practical in most U.K. listening rooms. Actually my experience is that ATC speakers are absolutely fine and indeed enjoyable for low level listening, particularly the active models, but turn up the volume of, say, a piano recital to something like a realistic level and that spine tingling presence of an actual instrument manifests.
With their focus on neutrality, I think ATC voice their speakers to sound realistic at realistic levels and the way human hearing works means means that at lower levels there will be some loss of lower and higher frequencies and therefore of a degree of realism. A piano playing quietly should not sound the same as a recording of a piano played loudly but reproduced at low volume, at least in my opinion.
Roger
Thanks for sharing that thought
TBH, not really making much of that quirk or characteristic.
It’s just the way ATC 40’s appear to me. Still like them.
In the same way that the PMC 23i’s are a little bass heavy. But that’s okay too.
Everything has its own character
That’s a fair point. Well made.
Also, when chatted about this same aspect - back at the dealers - we talked about the closed box design. How a quieter presentation - at low level - this is a feature of a sealed cabinet. A ported cabinet or a TL design does things differently, etc.
Still think ATC speakers are brilliant and it wouldn’t put me off buying, not by itself.
But this aspect or character of the passive 40’s is noted as a real thing.
For the active 40’s it was less of a issue.
The active 20 towers, we trialed at home, even less so.
Part of the joy of exploring options - which a good dealer enables - is getting to know how different options work.
With speakers, any judgement is always relative. One speaker relative to another.
Best wishes
R
I agree, I think there is sometimes a confusion regarding the ATCs with people saying they don’t perform optimally at low volume, my finding is they perform superbly at high volume which isn’t the same thing as not playing well at low volumes. I had the PMC Twenty5 23s for a few years, great speakers, neat design and play everything well, not particularly sensitive to positioning, I moved to the ATC40As because I wanted more depth/volume, hard to describe. Currently I’m demoing the ATC50ASLs and the guy who installed asked my initial impression, I felt when played louder they still retained clarity and it was possible to have a conversation.
Keep up the review updates @ratrat great read.
I have owned PMC Twenty5 23, Twenty5 26, Twenty5 23i, Twenty5 26i, ATC SCM40 and ATCSCM40A.
IMHO you need to crank up ATC speakers up to get the best of them. They do not perform as well as PMC at low volume. The ATC passives sound very good with ATC electronics. If you are looking for a speaker that impresses yourself and friends, then ATC is the brand to go for. If however, you just like listening to music, without suffering from fatigue, then PMC is your brand.
