Hi all, I am fairly early on my journey and learning about what matters and that things that shouldn’t matter annoyingly do.
Okay my front end which is cheap
Ethernet cable connection - Netgear GS108 switch -connected to apple Extreme for WiFi and connected to the Node for streaming
Bluesond Node N130 as a streamer using TIDAL
Cambridge DAC Magic recapped with lower ESR caps and an improved 12V transformer to pre
Overall it’s doing pretty well. I have experimented a little and tried a Chord Qutest 2 and an original DacMagic and a few different power supplies on both and also a respberry Pi based streaming option and to my surprise the recapped DAC Magic is actually quite respectable, I preferred it to the Chord (Chord better with image depth and resolution) DM was better with scale, dynamics, bass weight and drive, musicality and for me better - yes really
I’ve ordered a linear power supply upgrade for the Node and hoping that will be better. So where am I and what’s the question ?!
At the moment it’s very dynamic, great bass weight and scale, more than resolving enough for me but a little fatiguing and a little glassy and ‘digital’ and I have found improvements by adding the GS108 rather than in an out of the apple AirPort Extreme (5th gen) I can’t remove the apple device as I need WiFi really in the room. Adding the GS108 did reduce the glassiness a bit and it sounded a tad more ‘grounded’
I’m hoping the LPS for the Blusound will help as well. I have a few ideas and wanted to see if there were any throughts and priorities
Fit the LPS to the Node (streamer only)
Put the Airport Extreme on a 12V linear supply to ensure it’s a tad quieter
look at some of these Ethernet noise reduction options like a RJ45-Fibre and back
Perhaps some Ethernet cable alternatives, perhaps.
Try a few other streamers and DACs but the basic sound I am broadly happy with it’s more about reducing the ‘digitalness’ and I am not looking to invest loads right now
Any other ideas about set up I have a wall Ethernet from a GS316 switch in the basement and currently connect to another GS108 in the Cinema room and to the node and to the airport extreme from there. It was better adding this switch (which is on a 12V linear supply)
I’m not going to give detailed advice (I don’t have experience of your kit or the options you discuss) but I think you need to be cautious spending huge amounts of time/money on multiple tweaks. I would always prioritise the core components source/DAC and speakers. (Perhaps tell us what speakers you have?)
I am a luddite with my streaming setup, no fancy switches/cables/power supplies etc. This will probably be derided by others in this section of the Forum but I think it is important not to get lost in the potential update rabbit holes and concentrate on the essential elements in a starter system. Having been there, albeit many years ago, the benefits of better speakers or source can be very large at the value end of the scale. The benefits of a cable or other elements tend to be small, and in my experience harder to predict. There’s also a risk with many different elements of them not always working in synergy and you can get things right one way only for a further tweak to go backwards.
I’d keep it simple at the level your system is currently at and save for the significant investments in the main elements when you can. Others I am sure will disagree, and maybe be along shortly with more specific advice.
I do agree to focus on the basics but given how much difference I found by a little experimentation I was keen to not chase my tail because it’s not my new or existing DAC that is the issue it’s something else. A new DAC will be a lot more expensive as well I suspect
Oh the kit is part of a Cinema room set up, I am listening to for 2 channel streaming
Digital front end as noted then to naim 32.5, with supercap and to 4 x 135’s bi-amped then Sonus Faber Extremas and working in parallel with the subs 3 x 12" Sonus Faber Extrema and 2 x 18" subs EQ’s and time / phase alignment using a matrixed DSP
The DAC is the most significant component of a digital front end. Not only doesthat choice significantly affect things like detail and naturalness, but also different DACs have differing sensitivity to noise (RF) superimposed on the digital data stream. Some DACs can be very sensitive to RF and anything that changes the RF, which might include streaming transport power supplies, network switches and their power supplies, network cables etc, the RF somehow modulating the analog audio output, while other DAC’s may exhibit little or no effect. Also, whilst any modifying effect of RF would be a departure from fidelity of reproduction, it can be that some people like the effect, and that can depend on the system it is playing through, including the room, as well as the individual’s preference fir sound presentation.
The outcome of this is two-fold: firstly it is very hard for anybody to give you meaningful advice on what would be best for you unless at the very least they have the same DAC (and maybe even rest of system playing in an identical). And secondly, whatever monetary and time cost you might ex tweaking, then if you ever change the DAC, or rest of system, or put it in a different room, you might have to start all over again. Also when making any of those tweaks that may affect the RF do bear in mind that when you change one thing something else you may previously have tweaked might no longer be having the effect you thought it was having originally, so to optimise you might need to do a lot of back-and-forth trying all permutations. But of course if you enjoy and have the time for tweaking, as long as you bear in mind the above then you might achieve something that you really like, and I wish you luck with it.
My own approach is perhaps not dissimilar to BruceW’s getting a really good DAC, if it is is susceptible to RF, then use some sort of isolator/converter before it to minimise RF getting to it, and not get into anything to do with fancy power supplies and fancier network components. It may be worth noting that the addition of the suitable and very inexpensive chokes on the cable to the DAC can also help reduce RF (a quick search on this forum will find some discussion of this. However, I don’t stream music at any point across a network, as my connection to DAC is direct from the combined music store and playing software, and I don’t use online streaming services for any serious listening.
My old DAC Magic has been in use on and off since 2009, around a year later I thought about upgrading when doing the same thing with my AV system albeit I had different subs and was using an AV2 in series with the 32.5 for music. I demoed at home a Rega, a Weiss the nDaC and an XPS power supply a Bryston and I think a Chord at the time.
It was interesting and the only one I wanted to upgrade to was the nDAC with the XPS and it was unequivocally better but the DM at the time was in second place - surprisningy and shockingly so it was a £5k vs £200 and I couldn’t justify the upgrade. I was really surpised that with the 32.5 the Chord was not as good as the DM, it was more resolving and had a better sense of depth but the bass was not as good as the DM and the sense of ‘boogie’ and realism was better with the DM, it was more interesting and I wanted to play more music. The drawback is it is and has always been a bit ‘bleached’ in the top end and a bit glassy in the lower top end
I’m at Ascot tomorrow I’ll have a good look and listen
In the past I used WiFi repeaters, WiFi mesh, multiple Ethernet routers, multiple Ethernet switches, Power-line adapters etc. etc. I threw it all in the bin, except the cable modem / router of my ISP and a simple switch. Laptops connected to the switch (for work) and all the rest uses WiFi (including my ND5XS2 and Bluesound Node Icon). Could not be happier. Sometimes less is more. Less boxes, less cables, less noise on the mains
I’m too late, I hope you took the chance to have a listen to the Aqua La Scala in the Elite Audio room.
My two cents.
The DM with a decent PS on it is surprisingly good (I have a DM100 with a Sean Jacobs PS). The Node is very much the weak link in comparison and connecting it with an Airport Express won’t be helping. I would direct your attention there.
If there is an unused socket that allows it, ground the Airport Express. Assuming you have a USB socket to use an Audioquest Jitterbug should help, if you can run to an Entreq macro grounding box even better. You can get great sound with a wifi bridge but you do need to recognise that the receiver you have hard-wired to your hifi will certainly be the weakest link in your replay chain.
Decide what transport>DAC combo you’d like to get to and replace the Node with that transport. Upgrade the DM when funds allow.
I tried a few things including the Node-X (I think it was) as a streaming front end for my Nait 50. The Node is barely mid-fi. I’ve ended up keeping my Antipodes EX and feeding a Rega DAC-R and it’s a great vivacious 3x half-box system.
Thanks, I have experimented a little more with numerous A-B and in the room. With this configuration
(Basement)Fibre>Router>GS316>cinema(behind subs)GS108 on LPS(connected to the apple airport for WiFi) >Node
Trying different configurations with the apple unit was interesting the best is with it running from the Netgear GS108 so not in series, spurred of from the GS108.
I hear you regading the Node as a streamer, I have bought a 5V conversion unit to replace the switch mode in the node so I will try the Node as a streamer with the Fidelity Audio board and a Studer 900 based 5V LPS.
I will then see what I can do to replace the streamer. Interestingly the DM with higher grade replacement caps is a big step forward than the stock unit, I have a few alternative 12V transformers to try too (The DM has it’s power supply rectification inside but the AC transformer outside)
I have been surprised how much influence the ethernet supply is to the result
