Alternative to Minimstreamer with QNAP?

I’m currently using minimstreamer to stream FLAC radio stations on my legacy streamer via the minimserver app on my QNAP. I have a perpetual license for minimstreamer2 but I have to renew the minimstreamer portion every year. I use Asset (have a perpetual license) for the music stored on my QNAP so I don’t really need minimserver.

So I’m wondering if there’s a way to get the stream converter functionality elsewhere? I have a container for the bubble app I use for Qobuz FLAC streaming and it works without a hitch. I wonder if there’s a container available with a stream converter as well but I’m not sure. Maybe minimstreamer is my only option and that’s fine but figured I’d ask before I renew my license again. Thanks in advance.

Interesting, I thought minimstreamer license had no expiry like server but after reading your post, I went through the licensing signup and indeed it requires a yearly fee of $14USD. Given you have a full setup working for you, my 2 cents stick with it and avoid other headaches for that tiny yearly fee.

I don’t use a QNAP, have a combo of Mac mini, audirvana, rpi4 to serve my media needs. The other « stream converter » for internet radio/gen 1 Naim that you are aware of is Kurt’s Java code. Which I agree is overkill to package in a docker image and presents other quirks detailed in his thread. Plus someone would have to maintain both base package and image.

I just got it installed and working on my rpi for further analysis. If that solution works for you, and I think you have an rpi, it may be an option. Learning and execution a bunch of commands is easy if one wants to learn with some forum support :wink:

Personally, I’d always choose a paid option with support vs free, unless the latter has a community of software devs maintaining it. Hence why I am considering minim and will start evaluating it using 30d license during the holiday period.

I’ve had minimstreamer for years now. I don’t use the server since I have Asset and only use the stream converter function. I agree $14usd is not much but I wasn’t sure if the extension was a one time thing or it could be done in perpetuity. I’d rather not have to buy another full license so if it’s in perpetuity then that’s not so bad. That said, if there’s a simpler solution out there I’d be interested in it.

It is a bit unclear the streamer licensing part, but I think it’s recurring yearly it as part of the support for both server & streamer.

Idk if you’ll find a standalone “server” that support custom “transcoding” for iRadio. I stopped looking as what I mostly found was various UpNP servers that require much learning and config. Once I figure out creating a 2nd subnet, Kurt’s solution is an adequate one.

I quickly googled Asset, and they support iRadio, but I guess no transcoding feature?

I’m not sure transcoding is the same in Asset as it is in Minim. Asset transcodes all my local files to WAV and I can confirm it does that in the naim app when the music is playing.

I’m not sure what minimstreamer is doing so that the naim app sees my playlist.m3u file as a playlist and allows me to select the various FLAC stations contained within it and stream them as PCM. I do know I need this functionality to use my radio station playlist (m3u) file with my legacy streamer.

Minimserver acts as UPnP AV music server and is serving a media resource: playlist and supports network streams as http:// entries in .m3u playlist files. Very useful. Surely you or someone has configured MinimStreamer ( stream.transcode property) , no ? check the Playing network streams and Transcoding doc entries.

Do you mind sharing your iRadio playlist or a snippet of it ? it will help me when I get to trialing Minimserver/streamer. At the surface, this software seems very rich in codec transcoding for both input/output format. And I like that I don’t need to configure vtuner or loose the capability to preset iRadio stations. In this case they are all grouped in a file. (screenshot on how it looks on your app ?)

The more I think of it, your existing solution for HD iRadio for gen1 Naim products is probably the best paid one, initial cost for full license $39USD for 3 devices, then $14 yearly for support/updates and MinimStreamer.

thank you.

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I agree, if it’s only $14usd/yr for the streaming that’s a good deal. I’m not on my personal machine at the moment but will upload the file tonight when I have my mac. I’ll load some screen grabs of my settings in minimserver2 as well.

Here’s my current m3u file stations.

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I think so, taken from the license page:

The optional MinimStreamer extension is available only with a MinimServer full license. This continues the current approach of MinimStreamer being licensed for a limited period with an expiry date. Your MinimServer full license allows you to use MinimStreamer for 12 months with all updates and new versions included. After this period, if you purchase a license extension for MinimServer updates (see above), this also extends your MinimStreamer license (including updates and new versions) for the same 12 months.

thank you. Interesting that you didn’t add any type definition as in [ id ; type , samplerate , channels ] name. Maybe you set stream.transcode property to Flac:wav ? as all of your stations are FLAC.

Server tab

System tab

Are transcoding and converting the same thing? All my flac radio streams (m3u file minimstreamer) are converted to PCM.

But when I play local files, FLAC, AIF, etc from the minimserver they’re playing in WAV.

In asset I transcode FLAC, AIF, etc file types to WAV and see that when they’re playing back.

The stream.transcode property have two entries. As I haven’t trialed minimstreamer yet, can’t confirm which is in effect for iRadio. *:L16 means transcode anything to L16, aka LPCM with 16bits depth.

Transcoding usually refers to conversion between different digital formats, example from your above screenshot flac:wav. It involves a decoding stage from a compressed format to another representation. In the case of FLAC it is a lossless decode operation which then is packaged in wav format.

You may have come across other terms, such as in the analog domain, Analog/digital conversion (ADC) or D/A conversion (DAC) which refer to a series of processing steps where one is either an encode or decode operation, respectively.

Both terms can be loosely used interchangeably if one understands the nuances.

The *:L16 is not what I’m sure of either, it might be what allows use of the m3u file to stream the FLAC radio stations. Not sure. Or perhaps the stream.converter=ffmpeg allows this?

I thought if I could figure out how to configure Asset to do this I could just use my existing Asset server. I know the bubble app in my container uses ffmpeg so I can get the Qobuz FLAC streaming through the Kazoo app.

Oh the stream converter is the application/software used for transcoding purposes: ffmpeg for both flac:wav and *:L16.

You can just try by eliminating one option and check what works/breaks.

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@ElMarko is following guidelines I worked out in another long thread here on using MinimStreamer to play FLAC radio streams on first-gen Naim streamers.

The stream.transcode property setting flac:wav,*:L16 tells MinimStreamer to transcode local FLAC files to WAV and to transcode network streams of unspecified type to 16-bit signed LPCM.

Using WAV as the destination for network streams might cause problems as the streams are essentially endless and aren’t designed to fit in a WAV wrapper. See:

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Salut et merci @Adrian_P ! Another super long and useful linked thread above. It is intriguing as from using @Kurt forwardport proxy, which does ogg/flac unwrapping to wav, it is confirmed that using audio/wav as audio format works for HD iRadio on my Naim gen1 muso1 and other gen1 streamers.
The iRadio list that Kurt’s cloud based service includes a long list of stations. And I think you confirmed that you used flac:wav with success for your iRadio setup.

So there must be some odd combination of the stream source, UpNP media transcoding implementation/configuration and the media renderer capabilities that makes using wav not work for some cases for iRadio.

@ElMarko , reading the linked thread by Adrian, it seems that LMS may be another option for iRadio streaming/transcoding, again why invest time in another solution when what you have works :wink:

@aboulfad I was originally using flac:wav for radio streams but the recommendation from both the author of MinimStreamer and Steve Harris at Naim is to use LPCM for Internet radio streams. The good thing with MinimStreamer is you can have FLAC to WAV transcoding for local files on your NAS and LPCM for network streams.

As to alternatives to using MinimStreamer, the only option I’m aware of is @Kurt 's Forward Proxy which you are already using. There’s no equivalent functionality available in Asset UPnP as far as I’m aware.

I actually preferred the fact that with FWP you could integrate the transcoded stations into the Naim app’s standard iRadio interface because (so that you can assign the stations to presets, for example). It’s just a shame that you have to run the proxy on a separate subnet or VLAN if you run it on your own network.

Sorry I don’t follow: Kurt’s FWP use audio/wav not audio/L16 and the former works with the gen1 streamers as reported in his thread. FYI I don’t use either solutions, I just experimented and evaluated. If minimstreamer iRadio flac:wav worked for you, why switch to L16? Just seeking clarification and info : )

Re your last note, i agree I’d like to preset HD iRadio stations. I setup the FWP/rpi on my managed switch on a VLAN, but just that by itself didn’t change how FWP served stations presented in Naim app, they still showed up under Upnp. I need to learn more about VLAN setup and whether it’ll accomplish that goal without subnetting. Thank you!