I’ve got an NDX2, and had 6 months being extremely happy with it before an opportunity to add an XPS came up. The XPS made a noticeable improvement, but to be honest I would still be happy without it. It’s a damned fine streamer, but just a little better with the outboard power supply.
To your other point, the NDX2 is an expensive box. Hell, pretty much everything in this “hobby” is expensive. But we’re talking about something that is basically a luxury item, and I felt that the bare NDX2 was very good value for money.
I’d not be able to spend £4k on an xpsdr. Mine was close to half that,18m old,ex demo. Mint.
You need to think of an ndx2 as a £7,500 streamer than can be had for £5,000. Add the extra later if you wish. Go all out with a 555psu. Just don’t pay £7,000 for one. Covid/brexit/suez canal has not helped second hand prices( unless you are a seller).
There are good points to be had here. I think if you look through the archives a bit, you’ll see some past and present discussions of this very same thing you bring up. In several of those threads you’ll discover many who have not added a PSU and are completely happy, just as there are those who have a SN variant and never bothered to add a HiCap DR to it and are/were happy with that, too.
I honestly only brought the subject up as a curiosity, since I’ve never read anyplace where someone’s had all three ‘box’ solutions (or four, if one adds a LPS for an outboard DAC like a Chord) as a digital source. I’ve owned everything Naim as a main system in some form or another for a long time; it’s only recently that the streaming thing has entered my room, so just like the other Naim components I’m learning and trying to figure out what is the best path and options in order to squeeze out the last bit of performance regardless if it’s all Naim or an added brand to the mix.
@Michael17, I think those who answered are correct in that you should be very content with the NDX2. Yes, it’s expensive. My recent obtainment of it and the XPS-DR were chronicled in a thread a few weeks back. The only reason I own them is that I purchased them for an insane deal from a very good friend of mine who is moving in another direction. Second-hand PSUs come up all of the time, whether from dealers or the typical online audio sites. If it ever piques your interest and are serious about pulling the trigger on one, that would be the way to go…at least for me. I’ve never thought twice about purchasing used and have always been happy. I suppose my point is that the NDX2 is bar-none among the best available streamers on the market at the moment; at least within those top-tier ones, so either way you’d be paying an arm-and-a-leg. Enjoy it. I know I do. It’s just that for me it’s always good to ponder options for down the road, become as knowledgeable about the subject, and then be properly prepared should something unexpected come along.
i believe there is the option to have both and choose which dac (ndx2/chord) to use depending on the type of music (eg chord for classical ndx2 for rock). details were in the sadly vanished long running chord thread
You connect the NDX2 analogue output to your amplifier, the digital to the Chord and the Chord analogue to the amplifier. Then you select analogue or digital using output settings in the app. Even I can work it out and I don’t even own a Chord dac!
I’m glad @indexical brought this up and was further explained by @anon4489532. I had compared the NDX2’s internal DAC, connected by a DIN HiLine to the SN2, and as illustrated by HH, I chose the DIN output versus the Chord Qutest connected by a Nordost Silver Shadow BNC-BNC, one of my favorite digital cables of all time, choosing the Digital BNC output in ‘native’ mode.
Sadly (for me), comparing full albums, tracks and Internet radio for days before moving the Qutest on (in order to keep my current setup) confirmed my preferences for the Chord sound. The whole musical presentation, laser precision, imaging, clarity and adeptness at timing really, to me, made it the better DAC between the two. That isn’t sleighting the NDX2’s DAC section; it is fabulous. It’s just for me the Chord does something—many things—the Naim simply cannot replicate or compete with. I believe @Simon-in-Suffolk refers to it as the Mandelbrot Effect.
It created a conundrum of sorts in that does one utilize the XPS-DR more fully with just the NDX2/XPS-DR combo or keep the combo and add a (in my case) Chord DAC, sacrificing, it would seem, much of the quality and contribution the PSU adds to the former two-box setup?
Having bedded-in with the two-box, it has been a matter of not really missing what’s now gone…relying on memory and all that. I enjoy every minute of what I have and do not dwell on it. However, it’s like my plan to upgrade to separates…someday.
What I don’t understand it’s, if the Chord Qutest is so much better vs the Ndx2 dac, why did you finally sold the Chord and bought an XPSDR. Maybe you already explained that, but I read twice and still not understand. Sorry.
No worries, @frenchrooster. I get where the confusion lies. It’s not that it’s better, I just think it does the things that tick many boxes for me with regard to musical reproduction/presentation. I likely shouldn’t have said ‘better’ in the comparison; that’s my bad. Between the two, the Chord is preferable, given the attributes I subscribe to (mostly mentioned in my prior post) and what the Chord subsequently provides.
Now that it is gone, the Naim DAC, along with the XPS-DR, does enough right for me not to dwell on the comparison. If it was just the bare NDX2 (sans PSU), perhaps it would look a lot different. Who knows? I didn’t make that comparison, unfortunately. So what the XPS-DR adds might make up much of the difference when the Chord is gone. Just goes to show the XPS is a true, bona-fide upgrade for the NDX2, IMO and limited listening experience.
Should funds allow will I be getting a Chord DAC again? At this point it’s likely. Am I in a hurry to do so? At this point no.
Perhaps to really answer the question, I am keeping the current combo because I believe it is a last stop streamer solution within the Naim ecosystem for me (until the NDX3 or whatever comes along). I had a chance to get to that point and took it. To me it is the proper pairing for my SN2 and from all accounts likely for any future upgrades, such as the 252/250. My ND5 XS2 and Qutest solution at that point wouldn’t have been up to task balance-wise from what many/most have opined.
I use mine bare, auditioned an XPS Dr and it did nothing for me. In my opinion the NDX2 bare does not get the credit it deserves.
I went from NDX2/supernait2 to a NDX2/282/250Dr and the improvement was outstanding. So much more detail and dynamics.
If I am honest my opinion is now a Pre first, not source first mentality.
What’s the rest of your system, so we have some context? I’ve run one without a PS and with the XPS DR and 555 PS. As you go up the range of pre and power amps, you will start to limit the potential of the NDX2 at a system level without an additional power supply. That’s just the way the Naim systems are designed.
Strange? I guess we all hear things a little differently.
ND5XS2 with an external Chord DAC won’t be particularly different to NDX2 with the same Chord DAC … the Naim is the great transport/streamer and the Chord is making the great sound.
I guess all you’re getting with NDX2 is a nice screen … I prefer it without. Hence I went for ND5XS2
Whatever sounds best to your ears and enjoy the music.
I agree with you to an extent.
When I auditioned the bare NDX2 initially, I was able to compare it to the ND5 XS2 and outboard DAC. THAT was enough to convince me the latter was on par with the former, so I bought the XS2 and added the Qutest. I have talked extensively about how I thought this to be the case. However, I feel the comparison isn’t the same once the XPS-DR PSU is added; the equal or like-for-like comparison no longer holds, IMO. There is something to it (the PSU) that made the NDX2 now the more performant transport, but obviously at a significant cost (of course, after adding something like the Qutest).
I know there are some who have used a Qutest on the NDX2 without the XPS-DR and have thought it to improve upon that. I have no idea, but I have no reason to doubt the veracity of anyone’s claim.
thanks @Richard.Dane my bookmark to the post disappeared and as the thread in now closed and doesn’t appear on latest i didn’t realise it was available - apologies
many thanks hh, demoing and choosing an all naim, all chord or more recently possibly hybrid system went on hold for lockdown and hasn’t yet restarted so i am gradually collecting info on possibilities to narrow down demo options. as i currently only have a muso2 some of the options are outside my experience and getting info from the forum on others experience is very useful
The NDX 2’s internal tranny is slightly bigger than the one in ND5 XS 2, so not quite the same…then you have the de-coupling of the chassis mounted sockets as well.
I would love an NDX model without the screen ( + everything to make it work, not harm the overall SQ etc.) for 1000 - 1500 less. I’d be on the pre-order list instantly.
