Thank you to all those who have responded to my recent questions. I have learned a great deal. In particular I now know, and understand, that:
Apple Music cannot be streamed losslessly by any wireless method.
Apple Music does not necessarily stream losslessly if a Mac is used as a wired source for a DAC.
With the exception of one or two non-Naim and rather obscure bits of hardware that can be purchased and high cost, there is exactly one way in which Apple Music can be streamed losslessly to a hi-fi DAC. I now have that method working with my Naim system:
THIS IS WORKING IN MY SYSTEM NOW:
iPad / Apple Lightning-to-USB adapter (I bought the genuine one) / USB A to B cable / Naim DAC-V1 with Naim NAP100.
When music is streaming to the iPad, the sampling rate and resolution can be seen from the iPad’s screen. The sampling rate only can be seen on the DAC-V1’s display, but it is reassuring that it matches the info shown on the iPad.
In fact, I have not found very much Apple Music that is available in the highest resolutions, but a fair amount is certainly better than the CD standard.
One of the advantages of using an iPad is that all the other things I want to hear are available, such as jazzgroove.org. Presumably any other streaming service could be used too.
Like most of us I am constantly thinking about how to improve my system and choice of streaming service (I only stream nowadays and don’t see that changing) but for those who want to use Apple Music the above is the only straightforward, practicable way of streaming losslessly … for those Apple Music albums which are available losslessly, which certainly isn’t all of them.
I am a bit nervous about committing to a lovely new Naim streaming device such as the ND5 XS 2 or even the NDX 2 (I’d upgrade my Naim amp too, probably to a SN3), but that would mean having to change from Apple Music. The one thing that is certain about Apple Music is that it will be around long term, and will, presumably, improve over time. It is less certain that, for example, Tidal will be around long term (see the recent news reports). How wise is it to spend thousands on a Naim system that would require a change to one of non-Apple streaming services? That is what I think about a lot whilst enjoying my low-cost, lossless Apple Music streaming experience.
I haven’t seen the other thread, so you may know this already, but an Eversolo DMP A6 can be used to stream Apple Music natively in full resolution from its own AM app. You can then choose to feed it into a better DAC or use its own analogue connections. It has a lot of other bells and whistles, but they can be ignored if not useful.
That’s right. There is another such device too whose name I forget. Whether the SQ would be any better than I have atm is uncertain. One of the limiting factors is the quality of the source material from Apple Music. I listen to a lot of classical and the majority I have checked appear to be 16/44.1. Only a few are higher-res.
I’ll make a ‘streaming in general’ comment as an Apple Music, Tidal, and Spotify user. I have a lot of CDs ripped and on a NAS. I use those when I really want to sit and enjoy the music. It’s the way I get comfortable on the quality / version of stuff I want to actively listen to.
If you’re significantly invested in a system, I think you’d want some degree of control vs letting Apple, Tidal, etc. do what they want.
I know that may be overkill and defeat the purpose of streaming / one-box streamers. Just wanted to add that perspective to the source material conversation.
Thanks, Maury. I don’t have a NAS but I have in the past ripped a few CDs, laboriously, on a laptop with attached CD drive. The files are stored in iCloud so I can listen to them too on my present set-up using a suitable player (such as VOX) on the iPad. That works well, although it is a chafe having to swap from VOX to Apple Music when I want to stream. (Obviously the ripped files will play on the Apple Music app too).
I’ve no concern about taking out a Tidal (or any other) subscription if I do in the end splash out on new (Naim) kit but I am really reluctant to have to mess about with several different streaming services because no one service does what I need, or has the music I want. The ideal for me would be Apple Music with everything at 24-bit/192kHz, streaming from a high-quality Naim streamer into a the best Naim amp I could afford. Sounds simple … but what fraction of Apple Music users, or of all folk who stream, want that? The answer is, I suspect, very few, which I assume is why what seems to be so difficult for people like is as it is. The demand just isn’t there.
From your post I understand you want to upgrade your system to e.g. a Supernait and are looking for a matching (Naim) streamer.
With the pace of change in the streaming world I personally would hesitate to spend a significant amount of money into a streamer with a built-in DAC. My approach would probably be to buy a stand-alone DAC with a separate streaming transport. That way you can replace the transport if required but keep the DAC. A used nDAC might be an option if you want to stay with Naim.
I am well-off with DACs - I have the Naim DAC-V1 and a Chord QUTEST. What do you recommend for a transport - assuming that I need Apple Music and would need the transport to control volume and, ideally, be remote controllable. Presumably the only options for me, at the moment, are the Eversolo and Fiio mentioned above?
I get it 100%. The reality is that Apple (Music) is a mainstream product for lots and lots of people that operates in a closed environment. If I were totally committed to Apple Music, Naim would not be where I would end up. If I did, it would be an Atom or Nova, max.
Speaking from experience - I own a lot of Naim gear, Sonos, and Apple Homepods - there is a value proposition for all of them. And if you have the space, faff, budget for a few different systems and streaming platforms, you can tinker with it all. That doesn’t seem like what you want to do though. Engineering a hardware solution all around Apple Music would be NAD/Bluesound for me.
If you are looking for an integrated solution for Apple Music, Eversolo and Fiio are the only options at the moment afaik. But their streamers have an integrated DAC which you would not need if you want to use your DAC V-1 or Qutest. Also, they seem to running on some sort of an Android OS and use a casting app on the their mobile phone apps. This sounds a bit clumsy to me.
When I still had my Naim DAC, I tried the same approach as you, i.e. iPad → Lightning to USB adapter-> USB to spdif converter-> Naim DAC but found it not practical for everyday use. My conclusion was to drop Apple Music and use a streaming service that is supported by the streamer of my choice.
The Eversolo doesn’t cast Apple. It’s played directly on the Eversolo in full resolution. The use of a customised Android OS in combination with their own tweaks, is the only reason it can be done at all. That’s why NAD and Bluesound can’t do it. The Apple Music app is downloaded to the Eversolo just like you would do to an Android phone. Your phone/tablet can the mirror the Eversolo screen menus and controls.
Android operating systems have a default 48 kHz for all audio, but Eversolo divert the audio stream off to their own audio engine, which delivers the full fat native audio up to 192 kHz. As far as I know, you can output that on a choice of USB, Coax or Optical to an outboard DAC or choose to use the analogue outputs from the Eversolo, Balanced XLR or RCA Single Ended.