I’m sure this topic has been discussed many times, but I’m curious what file format most people stream. My understanding is DSD provides the best audio quality but there doesn’t seem to be as large a selection as WAV or FLAC. What should I stream for the best experience? NativeDSD.com, HDTracks.com, other?
I mostly stream from local storage (a NAS box), all my music is FLAC mostly 16 bit but a reasonable amount of 24 bit. I haven’t seen much of the music I prefer in DSD.
Online streaming is just what format the provider uses.
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I think it depends on what the set up is capable of. And ofcourse if a certain format is available for purchase. DSD is not very common.
In my set up and to my ears (this is different for everyone) I cannot hear a lot of difference between flac, wav and DSD.
You should just try I guess. And first of all trust your ears.
P.s.: the Qobuz download store has quite a catalogue (you don’t need a streaming subscription) and has a lot of formats, including DSD/DXD.
Most people stream (local stream from NAS) one or other PCM (WAV. FLAC etc). As you say DSD is not that readily available.
I started DSD when first Naim started testing beta firmware.
Yes it can sound a bit special but (IMO) it does depend on how it was recorded & the actual material content.
As to what sounds best … thats impossible to answer, its completely surjective.
What DSD has going for it is that the recording companies who use it tend to be serious about producing a high quality recording all the way through to the end product & this is probably the main reason why we hear something better and/or different with DSD.
DSD recordings cannot be mixed/process like PCM and either have to be recorded & produced from end to end as DSD or recorded or converted to PCM to go thru the mixing & production stages.
This means in the practical recording world that DSD can only be true/pure DSD from end to end with music recorded in DSD (DXD) with small ensemble, jazz, coral, folk and using only one or maybe two microphones.
I can’t say I’ve heard anything special or that different with DSD on big orchestras or rock, I suspect because they are just PCM converted to DSD.
Whatever, best not analysed, just listen.
My first listen to DSD was a wow moment with David Elias “The Window”. David manages his own recordings including his own studio techniques & uses DSD all the way through the process, so its genuine native DSD.
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Stream the format which matches your DAC.
Naim DACs (all of them) are PCM so go for hi res FLAC/WAV.
Other brands might be optimised for DSD.
Our experience of DSD on naim DACs is it sounds ok, but not as good as a hi res FLAC.
Does Naim gear convert DSD to PCM before the DAC? The manual for the NAC-N series says S/PDIF (to 192kHz/24bit) or DSD64 formats though and I have played DSD files from a usb drive using my 272. Only issue I had was a relatively limited selection of music in seems to be available now in DSD format.
While most of my NAS is WAV, I make new rips from vinyl on FLAC. Simply put, it is the lowest common denominator now. I have found that:
DSD
- My UQ2 won’t do DSD but other streamers in the house will.
- But my NDX won’t do DSD128 or higher
So DSD is out.
WAV
- Everything supports WAV right? Yesno.
- Older Naim streamers like my NDX selectively refuse to play WAV at or higher than 24/96 that I create myself. The newer stuff and all non Naim devices have no issue.
So WAV is out
FLAC
Everythig I have plays FLAC and the Naim boxes have no problems with FLAC transcoded to WAV at high rates, even though delivered from WAV files they seem to fail.
So FLAC is, in my setup, the lowest common denominator that everything gets along with. Served from Asset transcoded to WAV.
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Yes, the DAC handles PCM only, so Naim convert DSD to PCM. I believe this is done by the SHARC DSP which precedes the DAC chip.
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I prefer WAV for local streaming. FLAC is excellent too but IMHO WAV is slightly better (especially in the highs) by a very little percentage. However I understand if some people say they hear no difference between the two, it’s system dependant. I think you’ll be happy either way.
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DSD aside, as thats the OP’ers question.
I rip/buy and store as FLAC but set Asset UPnP (the NAS streaming software) to transcode (play as) WAV.
WAV, FLAC (and all other) LPCM data files are the same (identical).
The difference is the way the format program gets processed, plus unpacked in the case of the FLAC & ALAC compressed formats. That’s what most agree is the difference we hear with 1st gen (green screen) streamers. I’m not sure I hear any difference between WAV and AIFF, but some bat ears might do so
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That’s correct indeed, I oversimplified my answer.
I have noticed the same: WAV sounds a bit better than FLAC. I agree, I believe it is the noise due to the processing required to convert FLAC to PCM that is the difference. I aim to get a NAS and store as FLAC and convert to WAV before sending to the streamer. Glad to hear that is working well for you.
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Actually the chips used in everything but the ND555, NDS and nDAC do support native DSD. But there are a couple big reasons not to enable the feature.
- It makes more sense to have all products operate in the same way on a common platform.
- Doing any DSP and filtering on DSD in real time is a major challenge. Naim don’t just feed raw PCM as is from whatever stream is unpacked. It goes to the SHARC first performs some of the pre conversion workload instead of the DAC chip. A lot of thought went into that approach. DSD as-is would circumvent that. Naim understand how to get the best out of thoss BB chips for PCM conversion. A lot of that control goes out the window if DSD is enabled.
I notice there are a lot of high end DACs that support DSD. But on many of them, if you dig into the details, they also convert to PCM and then feed the DAC chip. Though I think they do it for different reasons.
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Your understanding is correct. The SACD format uses DSD64 (or single rate DSD) to store music, although not successful. The people who decry DSD will rave about SACD, kind of an argument for its widespread further adoption, although it may be niche? I convert all my digital rips and streams to DSD512, using Roon, and then play it back on a DAC that uses the infamous ESS DAC. Roon is like marmite; you love it or hate it.
What is there to gain from converting a PCM source data to DSD?
The higher definition PCM files have very little, if any difference; however, the lower rate (44.1 kHz or 48 kHz) has a noticeable uplift. A lot depends on what you are playing and through what?
SACD’s are/where encoded in DSD.
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