Ah, thanks
I understand taht the Qutest has both SPDIF (BNC) and USB inputs. This means that you have plenty of options including, among others and beyond the options already mentioned, Sonore microRendu and ultraRendu, Allo DigiOne Signature, Allo USBridge Signature, Naim ND555, Auralic Aries, Naim NDX2, Primare NP5, Chord 2yu, SOtM sMS-200ultra … the list is very long!
Perhaps you should think about which protocols you would like the streamer to support beside UPnP/DLNA (Chromecast, Airplay, Bluetooth, etc.) and which devices can you easily demo at your location.
Good luck, nbpf
As you’ll be gathering there are multiple possibilities! The one Iuse is a Mac Mini (as with seemingly most who do, mine is “late 2012” version, chosen for reasons of cost effective DIY upgradability of RAM and drives). There is a selection of software: for me it’s Audirvana. (Other options include JRiver and Roon.) Audirvana if used in fully optimised, with dedicated USB bus output, and run in direct mode to bypass all of Apple’s own sound hardware and software , it is capable of very high quality: I compared to a Melco N1A (into Dave DAC ) and there was no discernible difference. With own music, stored on the MM, it has the significant advantage of not streaming across a network, while it can stream from Qobuz and Tidal among other online providers. If you want also to do multi-room it can also steam vire UPnP, though apparently some Naim streamer uses have struggled possibly due to non rigid standards.
To me the only limitation of Audirvana is difficulty managing files with poor or missing metadata, and likely will change as soon as I find something at reasonable cost that sounds as good and can search and browse by file structure
Disadvantage with USB output is electrical (RF) noise, which can affect some DACs: Hugo, that Iused first, was seriously affected by ground plane modulation, to fix which I inserted a Gustard U12 isolator, but not necessary with Dave. I think Qutest has galvanic isolation, and might be OK.
Thats how mine is setup.
UQ2 speakers set to none, digital output set to on with the Qutest connected this bypasses the inbuilt pre on the UQ2.
Raspberry Pi4 with BubbleUPNP loaded then fire the Qobuz tunes to the renderer i.e. the UQ2.
So for £600-700 the UQ2 represents excellent value as a streamer.
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I must be setting up audirvana wrong. I can discern significant differences to a Melco N100 when running in direct mode to my DAC-V1. The Melco gets close to CDS quality when performing back to back blind comparisons, audirvana doesn’t.
(2016 MacBook Pro running on battery with direct USB link to the DAC-V1)
I use Mac Mini, running headless - no keyboard or monitor, nothing else going on. I’ve no idea whether or by how much that might make a difference: it was said to, but I never compared. I stuck at IOS El Capitan 10.11.6, to retain direct mode (though I know it can be enabled on later OSs with a script). Audirvana is v3.5, optimised according to Audirvana’s guide (Direct Mode - Integer Mode 1, dedicated usb port, sysopt etc.)
I don’t know how susceptible DAC-V1 may be to RF via a USB input - if I were to guess, it might be there that the difference lies more so than the Macbook vs Mac Mini: As I mentioned MM with Audirvana wasn’t great into Hugo direct, but Gustard isolator made a mammoth difference, then sounding better than the ND5XS used as a renderer. It was later with Dave that I compared against Melco N1A - Dave of course is a DAC on which a lot of attention had been paid to blocking RF.
I think the Dac-v1’s USB is isolated, it doesn’t need one like the Hugo. My thinking is that the differences are all in the MacBook (and configuration) vs Melco. I have absolutely no idea if I’m right, but I certainly don’t have the patience to constantly tweak the system.
I had the Melco on demo a few months ago and will probably find a place for it fairly soon as it represents an easy & musically acceptable one box solution to streaming and music storage with the Dac-v1.
Not all attempts at isolation are equally effective… I’m not even sure that the most sophisticated DACs achieve perfect isolation: Witness the ethernet cable threads - a different input, but it seems likely that RF noise reaching the DC is what makes the difference, and people seem to report virtually all DACs (streamers) are affected.
Not the LInn Klimax DSM/3 (with Katalyst) as far I know. There is a guy on the Roon forum tried to tweak his Linn Klimax DSM/3 streamer with a ER, and he is of the same opinion that his streamer is better w/o it.
If Dave is so immune to RFI, why so many persons add ferrites on the cables connecting it to Mscaler or Blue?
As I said above, I’m not even sure that the most sophisticated DACs achieve perfect isolation - and Dave is one where I understand considerable design effort went into addressing RF.
From reports from its designer it seems that even with Dave’s very design basis trying to prevent RF it seems it is not completely immune, though I also gather the adverse effect is very small and adding ferrites is just the icing on the cake.
Incidentally it seems from what I read that Blue2 and MScaler generate RF, I don’t know how the frequency characteristics or levels compare with other sources like computers and networks.
In addition to the Lindemann Limetree Bridge I mentioned earlier I believe the miniDSP studio is a good value streamer, which also gives you the ability to perform dirac room correction if desired.
Preference, of course, is unrelated to whether or not there is a difference. And as the various cable threads have shown people’s preferences vary. One thing that has been reported regarding ground plane modulation is that perceived effect can be like ‘brightening’ of the sound. Whilst that may be a deviation from the sound as recorded, some people or maybe people in some systems may consider the greater brightness to be a benefit, whereas other people or in other systems may consider it to be negative.
More interestingly, in the context of the above exchanges, is the apparent fact that the said guy could hear a difference with Klimax. It may well of course be like the references to Dave and ferrites, icing on the cake rather than anything very significant or noticeable.
Perhaps I don’t understand well the term « brightness « , because I always thought that it’s something negative, like stridency or a bit exaggerated high frequencies which sound not soft.
From what I understand, reading comments from various people on Head Fi including Rob Watts, the M Scaler can/does generate it’s own noise… even if it is low at low levels, that can be transferred to the DAC via BNC cables which aren’t isolated. This is the reason Ferrites are used on BNC cables to control this.
An alternative to this is, apparently, is to use a battery / Power Bank / Optical (OPTO-DX) to isolate the M Scaler from the mains or/and the DAC… which in turn stops the flow of the noise from the M Scaler to the DAC.
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Thanks for that clarification. That suggests the problem is the old hairy chestnut of ground plane modulation that is so difficult to avoid - except by isolation of all but one of the components from ground (including via mains connections)
Also… just to say that this is what I would really call fine tuning of a system. Even without Wave, OPTO or Power Banks the M Scaler still sounds great.
The stock BNC cables can be ok… I had a problem with one of mine crackling, possible a bad connection on the plug so I changed them for a pair of 1.5m Wireworld Starlight BNC cables and that made for a pleasing improvement.
I use a larger 50,000mAh DC power bank but for critical listening… which lasts days if I use it 2-3hrs a day and recharges in 3hrs. The rest of the time, listening to music while working etc, I just use the standard power block it comes with and perfectly happy with that. Especially if you are using it in a good system already (most people here) and not one that is overly bright to begin with.
Have you tried or owned the Auralic, Allo and/or Primare yourself?
When the bluesound node 2 in my second system broke recently, I replaced it with a Limetree Network. It was up and down during the run in period, but now after a few weeks of use it is sounding very very good.
It’s a clear upgrade in sound from the Node2, notable points being timing and start/stop of notes contributing to a great sense of PRAT which I would expect to be a great match for Naim systems
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Hi Toon,
Just to double check, are you running the Krisdonia at 12V?
M