'audiophile' switches

That does not say completely, and so does not indicate a statement of immunity! But I’m sure if he is interested in adding more @Simon-in-Suffolk will clarify for himself.

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Exactly - a basic understanding of technical language would be useful before making assumptions

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Yes, I remember you reporting all of that on the big thread.

It seems very reasonable as a result, given that the Ether Regen is specifically designed to improve audio ethernet signal chain and the Ciscos are not.

And that you added a powerful and quiet audio-specific double LPS.

And this is all new kit.

And at much greater cost than the salvaged SH Ciscos.

What did surprise me was your finding that with 1 (or both) ERs in place the Ciscos added nothing at all - did I remember that right?

And so you no longer use them at all - not even to provide a noise trap between your router and ER?

There again, if you still have 2 of the ERs I suppose you already have a double noise trap/clocking function between router and streamer.

Maybe we should create a mini thread where we put those details right up front as a sort of start up guide to doing PoE?

@ElMarko…?

This question does come up quite often so it would be useful to have around.

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All depends on how each understands the term « mostly things of the past » , after having although said that » Cisco switch will cover all the deficiencies of these audiophile switches « and that « the key point is decoupling the dac from the streamer « ( which resolves all the network pollution).
All these statements go against the experiences of a lot of members all over the world, and for beginning against 14 members in the Naim forum using new streamers and enjoying audiophile switches as an significant upgrade in the sound.

I can report too: adding a Cisco to the Etheregen in cascade degrades the sound. It’s better with ER alone.

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OK, I understand (I think) your point.
If people who have experienced the old streamer platforms & then moved to the new platform say its not as susceptible to the effects of cables & switches, I believe them. I’ve also been told the same by Naim HQ people. I will have to wait until I move to a new streamer to try it myself.
As I’ve said before, I’ve found different LAN end points do appear to sound (react) differently to components like cables & switches, & that includes differently in all ways possible to a screen or no screen.

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I must say, being able to photograph music is an amazing achievement; photographing musicians or a musical score is one thing, but photographing music itself… Wow!
:rofl:

(N.B. this is pure humour - no insult intended.)

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Maybe a good way to summarise and conclude such threads like these :hugs:

handbags-at-dawn

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So, to summarise, some people agree with you some of the time and others don’t agree with you some of the time. You’ll never get all of the people to agree with you all of the time.

We also have a saying “lies, dam lies and statistics”

I think it’s self-explanatory, and you probably have the same expression. If not, I will elaborate.

I think it’s important here to clarify that nobody here is being called a liar - it’s a saying and I advise anybody not familiar with it to find out what it means, otherwise you might think Don making a personal attack here (which he isn’t from what i can see):

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I don’t see the reason of your point. I don’t agree because the point stated is contradicted by other several experiences : people having new Naim streamers observe still an uplift in sound with better switches.
I don’t search that people agree with me in all cases. It’s just a forum and we share our opinions. No more or less.

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This is a great introductory book on statistics, written in 1954 by a non statistician. Highly recommended. The ‘how to prove that your product has secret built-in goodness’ is particularly apposite in the current discussion.
image

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Thank you Richard.

It is indeed the statistics and the use of statistics that I was referring to. The wikipedia explanation is very good.

I doubt if any of us are truely innocent of mis-using statistics from time to time.

Utilisation des statistiques pour soutenir la faiblesse des arguments.
The translation could be: sometimes statistics are used to reinforce a poor argument.

However, in our case, I think that personal experience is stronger than theory in audio .
A multiplication of similar personal listening impressions is stronger than a theory.
My opinion only.

Isn’t the point that whilst some people do, also some people don’t, so the streamers apparently are not so susceptible as to be inevitably audibly affected? There is also the question of objective assessment and subconscious bias - which of course can apply to both groups of people.

Simplest not to argue about whether or not anyone percieves a difference with different switches or cables, but instead in describing an effect also make sure to identify the critical factors of what streamer or renderer (transport) & DAC are used, and the structure of the associated network, and any steps to make tge comparison objective. That way readers of the thread can start to tease out what might be worth trying for themselves: E.g. if several others, all with the same gear and similar network arrangement and all taking reasonable care to avoid bias, all report much the same effect, then someone else with the same setup might reasonably conclude that there may be something something worth pursuing, or not.

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I’m not talking about “theory” v “experience”
I’m talking about small numbers, with various equipment, being use to “prove” something works. This is pushing statistics beyond their limits.

IB has captured some of the issues in his post above.

If a theory is contradicted by several opposite experiences, that theory is not accurate.

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For now there is 10 owners of English Electric switch and 4 of Etheregen switches.
90% of them use the new Naim Streamers and have reported a clear uplift vs tp link and most vs Cisco.
Bias effect contamination ?

I have no idea, so I certainly wouln’t for one moment suggest that as likely. They may all absolutely be gunuine differences in the resulting analogue signal.

But of course bias or other psychological influence might indeed be a possibility in any described audible effect where there haven’t been steps to avoid it, which is why I have suggested it would be helpful if people do identify anything they have done that helps ensure objectivity when they post experiences where bias or other psychological effects can skew things.