I See roon like I see the Apple ecosystem, you start to build your systems around roon, and start to buy streamers that has roon support as a requirement and in the end I Am reluctant to go other way.
But roon is an expensive route or an ecosystem that works in my case.
I also like the supplied apps from Naim and Blusound, they work very well and have a lot more options for streaming than roon that is limited to tidal and Qobuz. Qobuz is not available in my country for me the only streaming option in roon is tidal.
For me if Naim and other free supplied apps supported more than their own hardware only, for many people their apps could be the only one they could ever need.
When Spotify Hifi launches that will obviously be a problem for Roon. Also the lack of DLNA support, the proprietary database format and the need for dedicated hardware could be considered downsides.
The metadata Roon offers is certainly nice, but it is mainly the convenience that you pay for. The same metadata is available for free as well through various online services:
Allmusic
Discogs
Last.fm
etc
If you don’t require a preselected set of metadata in your player/streamer and equally enjoy looking for music and inspiration yourself online, then that will obviously suffice with the free services above.
Having to first find out who played on an album on Wikipedia or one of the sites you mentioned, then searching, say, the bass player on these sites to find their other works, then searching for these albums in the streamer app, vs. …
… simply clicking their name in Roon and seeing all other albums they played on right there, while also being able to limit searches further by e.g. label or year.
You are right that Allmusic has an interface where you search in one place, but you can still not play it on your streamer. Did you ever use Roon to any extent? It is so much slicker to do it all in one place, where the music also is. I have done your way for two decades, never going back to it.
Yes, Roon gets their metadata in part from Allmusic, also the reviews (which are not half bad). But it’s not their only source, so they are aggregating the data from various services, making it more complete. Even if the review comes from Allmusic, when it is in Roon I can click the links to mentioned musicians, it shows me their other stuff, split up in what I have locally and what is on streaming, and another click and it plays on the NDX2 or in the bathroom, or both.
Simply not the same thing and I, for one, are more than happy to pay for it. Remember, the system to play it on cost tens of thousands. Not going to sweat it over 600 + NUC for helping me organize the content that makes the system worthwhile in the first place
Sure it’s not criticism towards Roon! In the sense that it seems to work really well for many people.
I personally don’t mind using Allmusic or other sources for inspiration, so i don’t necessarily need that data inside my player. But ofcourse it’s a really nice feature that Roon offers, no doubt about that.
I did the Roon trial yes but at the time i had both a Spotify subscription and a large DLNA collection already in my network, so for me it was too inconvenient to lose both those options or look for ways to make them work together with Roon…
Anyways, I didn’t intend to enter into yet another pointless debate about Roon. In previous ones, people who didn’t get Roon most of the time didn’t even know its features beyond pressing the play button. Which makes a debate fruitless - either someone is looking for what Roon can do, and then it’s a godsend, and else it’s not needed for just pressing play on an album.
(Not sure what the DLNA collection issue is, just copy the files into Roon? Spotify I get if one is married to it, though Soundiiz and a proper service solves it largely It’s a pity that Spotify is intent on mining and selling your data and therefore forces people into their app)
I just intended to try and gently nudge Innocent_Bystander towards supporting the people who are building his favorite music player software, and suggesting Roon as a way out of the “don’t want subscription” conundrum, even if there are features he is not interested in (it happens with every software bar the most basic)
I think the DLNA is regarding to support the protocol, for example I have an IFi Pro iDSD if DLNA was supported directly by roon I could send the music directly to the iFi, but because of roon doesn’t support this protocol I had to have a Sotm sms 200 receiving the RAAT protocol and use it with the IFi.
I could use it connected directly to my computer because roon support it by usb, but not as stand alone streamer.
No, nothing to do with it changing or providing metadata (which I gather Roon does - though you loose it if you leave Roon), but A manages better than R with my music that has poor or missing metadata - Roon simply ignored anything it didn’t recognise, as uf it didn’t exist.
I will have to hunt back, which I haven’t done, but I include separate renderers and library software, and alternatives based on things like RPi and ultraRendu, and even purpose built stirr/renderers (e.g. from Melco, Innuos etc). I now need to look at and assess what is my best option, wanting sound quality, managing with inadequate metadata (e.g. utilising fike structure), no subscription to use, and best value for money…
Of course it is right that people are paid fairly for their work! But the work since last (paid for) upgrade is all around online streaming -which I don’t do! If Audirvana introduced true browsing by file structure with a one- off charge to then remain static (unless any bugs), then I would be happy to pay - but as a one- off charge for lifetime use, and no upgrades then needed, just lije buying a black box. A subscription model for a continually updating service may make sense as a complement to a subscription streaming service, but that is a different beast!
I figured it’s about the protocol, but I would simply copy the files into Roon. Maybe I am missing something. Of course I accept that it practically requires to settle on either one, it’s what it is. Roon had their reasons not to use DLNA …
I see. It’s not entirely true that you lose it if you leave, you can export into file tags, though of course these might not be able represent all of the rich data and relationships that Roon had:
The part with the ignoring is not what it should do and I have never seen this. I have lots of stuff on CD that is not on streaming (a reason for using Roon in the first place). I put the basic metadata into the files with dBpoweramp, then import them into Roon.
If the streaming service does not have the album, Roon has the (more) complete metadata anyway in most cases and simply applies it.
In some cases (my previously cited obscure Austrian punk, for instance), Roon has no metadata either. Then it shows the album with the basic metadata from the files and adds a link saying “Unidentified”. Clicking this brings up a selection tool and in some cases one can find the correct data there (say, if Roon knows a different release with different track number and did not see it as the same). In other cases there is nothing, then I can still add Roon metadata manually. It happens, but is nearly always the case only for the more obscure and non-UK/US stuff. Roon recognizing > 95% of my stuff makes it manageable for me to manually add those that don’t work.
It even works for me with vinyl. Some vinyl albums are not represented in the streaming service, of course, but I want to have my whole collection in one database. So I created a flac file on some speech processing website, which has a voice saying “get the vinyl”. I tag this file with the basic metadata for the vinyl album, then import it into Roon. Roon does not recognize it (it’s just one flac track) and displays it with the basic file metadata and the “Unidentified” link. Clicking this, I can choose the correct album as long as Roon is aware of it and its metadata is applied. (Else it’s back to manual adding). Obviously track titles are not there, nor any track-based metadata (such as “live” or track recording date/location) but the album metadata is there and essentially it looks just like any other album in Roon. When I forget that the audio files are not actually there and click play, it tells me to get the vinyl.
I have never ever seen Roon not show something because it did not recognize it, I imported 1000 ripped CDs and about a hundred vinyl albums with the fake flac.
On the underlying storage disk, I am using a file structure as well by the way, with several main folders for various categories. Is not bothering Roon at all, it just isn’t using it (and I see no need for Roon to do it)
Thanks, I see. I suppose those are nice players, but not really a replacement for Roon in the sense of its feature set? Else I would have missed something in my research before going Roon, which would be slightly annoying out of principle
OK, I can relate to this point of view. It’s just, I am seeing it form the point of the software developer too, and it’s creating a nightmare of complexity to have that. It ends up with different branches or even code bases, all having different bugs, you end up special-casing features and fixes and making them three times. A user has product A and a bug that does not occur for other users with product B although you didn’t specifically fix it there, just because B has different paths through the code, so you need to waste time fixing it in A, and so on and so forth. Nightmare. In the end I believe it is better for everyone to simplify even if it means users paying for a product that has more features that they use.
The problem is additional boxes and hardware to make or fully usable in roon, the support of DLNA would make the iFi Pro iDSD a one box streamer, just connected to for example a pair of powered speakers and have a very simple system or headphone amp with high-res support by DLNA.
The lack of support for DLNA in roon created the need to add additional hardware like the sotm sms 200 ultra, an sps 500, a good usb cable and a good power cable. If DLNA was supported no need for additional hardware and boxes.
Regarding the Naim and Blusound apps, for a lot of people pressing play and listen to their favorite álbuns is perfect. It’s a similar experience to use a CD player, they are free and work very well.
The other apps like Roon, Audirvana, Amarra, JRiver go beyond that experience with more functionality, and for me I opted for the one that I liked in my context.
Let’s see what Audirvana offers this weekend, could be an amazing piece of software.
What you describe is all way too complex for me. Why fiddling with bridging DLNA and Roon … I’d argue, just put the files into Roon and problem solved, less boxes.
I already had some DAC’s and streamers when opted for roon some years ago, it’s not roon’ s fault, but the lack of support for DLNA created the need for additional hardware.
And I could use a computer to listen to music, but have some systems and the computer stays only in the office.
Not a problem anymore, all my gear now support the protocol in a way or another.
Roon’s feature set brought nothing of value to me - as I said, I don’t stream online. And I have no interest in being prompted to look at what other things band members have done (where interested I have already looked up or could easily look up. Nor am I interested in being prompted to tell friends what I’m listening to. And the only information I normally want about an album is its original sleeve notes and images and lyrics, which curiously I didn’t find offered by Roon when I trialled. I am not against Roon and am not knocking it: clearly some people value these features and that is great for them and Roon, but others of us have different wants and needs, and the one thing I had hoped Room might do based on some people’s comments it didn’t, so was valueless.
I think we’ve taken this discussion as far as it can go! As I indicated I will just prepare to seek out a replacement renderer and library software for my system, and that is highly unlikely to be Roon. If the outcome involves replacing my Mac Mini then so be it, just a pity it is earlier than I hoped.
Fair enough, I was just interested if these others are really comparable replacements. It’s fine if they serve different needs, choice is good.
Just FYI though, Roon never prompts to look at what band members have done, nor does it prompt to tell anyone anything. Lyrics are there for approx. half of my collection. The original booklet is there as a PDF if Qobuz has it. (For own rips, additional images and pdf can be put into the album folder and are then available in Roon)
It’s a pity that Spotify is intent on mining and selling your data and therefore forces people into their app)