Audirvana Upgrade

Audirvana has been upgraded, just today, I think, and is now installed on my Mac. Free upgrade for my 2017 A+ version. In addition to Tidal and Qobuz, Audirvana now has High Res Audio [HRA] Streaming integrated, which is great for classical.
Sleek and clean looking interface and it is great to see this app in its new form as it is an excellent for UPnP streaming to ND 555.
Again, the world of streaming gains a further level of excitement and diversity.


Has Audirvana implemented an option for browsing by file structure in this version? That has been my one bugbear with A+. Not being interested in either tidal or using it as a UPnP player I have stuck with the last 2.X version, waiting, as have others, for this simple but powerful facility to be added. Its lack has driven me to consider alternative solutions, though I have not yet done anything as A+ is so inexpensive for an excellent renderer, and while my Mac Mini keeps working there I will put up with the annoyance of having to use a work-around.

Never understood the need to browse via file structure for music decent software should make finding your music seamless.

Folders (directories) and tags (labels) are quite orthogonal ways of organising a dataset. It is not that one makes the other superfluous, they both have advantages and disadvantages and I would expect a music server to support both.


But why do you need folders to be represented in software, the software should do the organising for you and present as such so its easily found or searched for without diving down a very dull and uninteresting hierarchy to find what I want. Seems very archaic way to me.

A folder hierarchy does not need to be less interesting than a system of tags. Folders and tags are just different classification systems: with folders and symbolic links, one can effectively achieve the same flexibility as with tags. Why should tags be better than folders? Better in which sense?


Why ever would software not allow simple searching or browsing by file structure?

Filing music in simple folder structure is easy and intuitive, and searching or browsing is just like in a library. Saving music takes seconds, with almost no thought, whether a downloaded file, a CD rip or an LP rip.

Whilst metadata based searching or browsing can be equally effective, it fundamentally depends on good and consistent metadata - and tgat is where the problem lies. The issue with metadata is getting it complete and correct. Even when downloading music, metadata is not always complete or correct, requiring time to check and if necessary correct, for every file downloaded. Classical music seems particularly problematic. And for anyone already having a collection that either has no metadata, incomplete metadata, or incorrect metadata, it is a major and very time-consuming exercise to fix it - some people may have limitless time, or even enjoy doing that, but not everyone.

Metadata searching comes into its own when searching large datasets spread across multiple, even random, locations )as long as everything has necessary metadata). It is wholly unnecessary where you have a localised store managed by the user, as with a music collection.

There is a current thread on this forum where someone has had trouble with albums showing as two copies. And other people have reported difficulty properly resolving double albums, or samplers. Or sometimes albums being somehow split and appearing as two part-albums. And all these things happen without necessarily easily identifiable errors in the metadata - but not a problem at all with simple file structure storage and browsing.

When I had an ND5XS, fed by at first Logitech Media Server on a cheap NAS, and later Serviio on Mac Mini, it worked perfectly Regardless of how good the metadata - even albums having no metadata. Sadly this is one area where Audirvana falls down, being very fussy about its metadata.


I’m sorry I posted this on Audirvana now, it has turned into an Audirvana bash and I only meant to do it some good. I’m probably one of the most metadatea-phobic streamers you could find and I manage to navigate my way round Audirvana with no problem even in the metadata mass that is my local library. On the other hand the My Music section in HRA Streaming within Audirvana is a joy and is easier to use and is more responsive than it is with the HRA Streaming app itself.

Mainly, though, for streaming, I use the Bryston MPD on the BDP-3 in default mode, folders and files all the way. I know where everything is, I can stack folders and files endlessly, select, play. This ease of use is absolutely necessary with something like a collection of the musical career of Bob Dylan; a folder for each decade since 1960, and within each decade folder, further folders for each year of the decade with folders of files for each music event of the year. Drag and drop the download/rip to the folder, open folder, play.
Maybe I’m missing the metadata gene but I can cope.

I’m not sure why you feel it has turned into an Audirvana ‘bash’. I asked whether A+ has yet implemented the ability to search/browse by file storage location, because as a user of the latest version you as the OP might know.

The remainder was simply a discussion of why this is a desirable feature. I have only knocked A+ for its absence - and in the meantime although not the slightest bit interested in it as a UPnP server I am living with it in the mode at which it really does excel,namely as a renderer (Mac Mini, fully optimised). If Damien were to implement the file structure facility it would be the perfect rendering software, then saving me from having to use a two-stage workaround whenever I want to access tracks invisible to it, or to be sure I can see everything when browsing. I live with the hassle because it is so good otherwise.

Ok, IB, apologies for misunderstanding. I’d be interested in knowing what you mean by using A+ for rendering. Could you tell me a little about your pathway from audio file to output?
I tend to use the app mostly to access streamers but sometimes I use it to playback a file I have in my local library on the MBP on which Audirvana is installed. But I am sending that file to whichever external DAC is available to be at the time, I can use optical/USB/ethernet to the DAC.

By using Audirvana as a renderer I mean it converts my .flac files into a digital music stream that feeds the DAC direct, not output to a streamer via UPnP: My output is via a USB port on the Mac Mini. As optimised this is a dedicated USB bus, and bypasses all of Apple’s sound drivers, to maximise sound quality. In fact as my music store is in the Mac Mini, my music does not travel across a network at all while playing, so I have no need to be concerned with effect of ethernet cables, swictes or their power supplies, etc. However, if I wanted to I could stream Tidal Qobuz or HiRes Audio and output them via A+ to my DAC, and that could even include MQA first unfold.

A word of caution here: frrding the USB direct to a DAC does require the DAC to be immune to RF in the signal: even using fancy power supplies on the Mac does not prevent RF, and in some DACs RF can modulate the audio, reducing sound quality (although, apparently, some people like the effect!). I use a Chord Dave DAC, which has been engineered to be as immune as possible to RF, so no problem. However, before Dave I had a Hugo, which was very susceptible to RF. With that I used a Gustard U12 isolator/converter, which solved the problem.

More of my A+ setup is given in my profile, however I am happy to go into it further if needed.

I just wish A+ would recognise my file structure and not rely on metadata! If it doesn’t adopt this facility, sooner or later I will find myself an alternative.

I was giving this ago this weekend on Windows 10 laptop, but cant get it to see any endpoints at all. Any ideas as to why? Firewall was off and Bubble uPnP can see everthing just fine as can Roon, but this only sees the PC its running on.

Make sure you disable all network interfaces on your Windows machine other than the one you are actively using. Audirvana picks the first enabled one it sees on startup, it’s a bug.

On a mac, at least, I find sometimes you have to restart Audirvana before recently added devices/endpoints become available in the selection ist.

Will check my network interfaces but as far as I know only one is active but you never know. I’ve restarted app and pc a lot makes no difference to discovery.

Thank you, IB. I now understand your rationale when using Audirvana.
I have Audirvana on a Mac Pro which does little else and I have the option of taking usb to Chord HMS/TT2, so a similar pathway. I guess you could say I also employ a similar line with a Bryston BDP-3 which has local drives attached. Of late, though, I am mixing things up, trying different options as I decide which audio flow works best in my system, local, NAS, streamers, CD, the Chord duo, ND streamer …

No joy with this at all just won’t see any endpoints. .As I won’t use it as part listening I’ll just have to pass on it can’t be bothered messing about as every other audio software works in my setup. I was interested in comparing it to Roon as it has both Tidal and Qobuz but it’s not meant to be.

You don’t give much detail as to how you have set up and connected.

On my Mac Mini I followed Audirvana’s setup instructions, and it sees any DAC connected to the USB port that I dedicated, and when I used a Gustard isolator in between it saw that. But if you’re using as a UPnP server I can’t help as I don’t use it that way, and I have no idea of any difference in set up on a Windows machine.

Just want to use it to send audio via UpNP I don’t have a DAC attached. Their help is pretty useless could not find anything via Google. I can run asset or minim server on same pc and that works fine using BubbleUpNp as control point but Audivarana does not show as a server and the software itself will not see any endpoints when I click on the speaker icon in the UI which is how it’s supposed to work.

Outside my knowledge. You could do worse than try asking on the Audirvana Plus 3.5 thread on the Audiophilestyle forum (formerly CA), and on Audirvana’s own support forum.