Back to CD

I think your point can equally apply to those (inc me) who aren’t, as yet, wholly convinced that streaming is suitably ahead of CD-replay, to shell-out £’k’s to explore this route.

I’m sure that in many cases streaming (whether from a service or via local library) is better, but it appears to come with some challenges and, IME, when I’ve been given the reins to an iPad with serviced streaming, the content on there is different from the CDs I have of same (tracks missing/in different orders), and the quality differential hasn’t been definitive to my ears.

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Recently I’ve also considering the CD Player route. But I do like ripping new CD’s to NAS and playing my music from there. I have cancelled my Qobuz account because I think my local files played over LAN sound better. Although I do enjoy listening to Local Radio stations that sound really good.. WRTI Jazz from Philly and WXPN also from University Of Pennsylvania. I may look for a good CD Transport to use with my Chord Dave. Feels like moving backwards LOL

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Same here. I’ve bought tons of CDs in the past 2 years; no CD player to speak of though. Just like ripping them and playing via UPnP.

I enjoy having the physical format in my possession, being able to chose the mastering / edition, and believe that they sound better, in general, than Tidal/Spotify.

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I do not often post here, but do lurk and read others, thank you others!

My relationship with my streamer dCS Bartok has not been wholly without issue.
I settled those issues by purchasing a LP12 and recovering and rebuilding my modest vinyl collection.
However it has to be admitted that streaming is so useful for finding and listening to “new to me” music content, without always going to Discogs and ordering another delivery of a 12" flat box package for £25. Plus you can cook with a DAC playing down the hallway in the background…(what?)

Whilst in the upper reaches of home doing the vinyl records thing, fairly heavy boxes of old but perfect condition CDs made their presence known to me by blocking my path. I felt that perhaps CDs may be making their way back after vinyl and tape cassettes perhaps? A few plays of my choice silver discs (at dealers) reminded me that Red Book really still has very much to recommend it as a format…so maybe what I needed was a quality CD transport.
A chunk of research to find a partner transport for the under used Bartok happened. Much and many Teac, Esoteric and dCS transports were enquired after, heard, tested, all without collecting any cigar.

Slow forward…and given history, I felt a replacement cum upgrade for the Bartok was probably best. Thus an Apex Rossini Player was researched and sought. Well what could possibly go wrong or distract me from this relatively straightforward path you ask? Well on the way to the sweet shop with my pennies in hand, I just happened to divert into KJWestOne and I have ended up with a Wadax Studio Player.

So I agree with the OP, but would add that one must go a long way cost wise with streaming before it equals physical media….

Be well.

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Totally agree. And that includes taking very expensive steps to minimise network noise which is the sworn enemy of digital streaming systems by effectively destroying musical coherence.

If I were a lot younger, say 20 years or so, and still working then I would probably go back to vinyl replay. As it is we haven’t had vinyl since the early 90’s and we just can’t afford to go down that route now being retired and already having spent a small fortune on our system.

I do sometimes dream of disposing of all our system and buying a Rega P3, a little Arcam amp and CD player and some nice little bookshelf speakers. But that would be a daft thing to do! More to do with nostalgia than anything else. Still, it’s a nice thought and I’m sure it would make a lovely little system.

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I have similar Moon equipment to you - 340ix coupled with the 280D streamer/DAC and Audiovector speakers. About 8 or 9 years ago, I ripped all of my CDs to a Synology NAS. In retrospect, that really wasn’t worth the effort. I now listen exclusively to Tidal via my Moon App. It’s simple and to date has never failed me with dropouts etc. It just works! If there’s any sound quality difference between my files stored on the NAS and the same album through Tidal, my ears aren’t detecting it but then again my ears aren’t in the youngest flush of youth!

Streaming gives me ease of access plus it enables me to explore new music. I don’t have a problem with the subscription model as I pay a modest amount per month and doubt if I’ll be a hostage to fortune with material price increases. I don’t need to worry about filing systems or physical storage for a large collection of CDs.

Would I go back to either CDs or vinyl? An emphatic no from me. In the meantime, I am boxing up all of my CD collection and am about to donate it to charity.

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It’s why I irrationally leave the Bluetooth activated on the ND5-XS2, just in case the wifi is down..

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Depends on the circumstances.

Mine replaced a beloved FM tuner much used before FM was shut off, a kids bluetooth speaker for Spotify, boxes of (now-ripped) CDs and a NAS (now on usb stick), so quite VFM actually.

Until I started upgrading it to sound as good as the NAT05 once did, but still. It also helps that I stayed with wifi (one of the reasons for selecting this streamer btw) and only did the basic necessary improvements there (good psu on modem, good cable between modem and router).

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Some musings from my side:

I am using streaming setups for about 10 years, after having owned a long series of CD players from NAD, Harman-Kardon, Denon, and Cyrus, all of which developed transport problems after several years of intensive use.

I initially started with a trial installation of Audirvana on a MacBook, connected via Toslink to my SuperUniti at the time, and right from the start it sounded better than CD playback. That was about 10 years ago.

Then I tried a variety of combinations of hardware, software, and networking technology, and today I use a Melco N50-H60 as a source, connected directly via USB to my Technics SU-R1000 digital amplifier. The network side is built around a Melco S100 switch and Melco C100 as well as Furutech NCF CAT8 cables.

On the software side, I use the current Linn app and, more recently, JPlay. I have also heard good things about Bubble UPnP (for Android devices), but I have not tried it myself.

In my opinion, CD and streaming (and here I mean local streaming, i.e. within your own LAN) can certainly be compared, but ultimately it is just as endless a discussion as the comparison of whether digital or analog is “better”.

As so often, it depends on the details of the implementation, and the higher your quality expectations rise, the more these details matter.

A high-quality CD player will also not reach its full potential if you place it directly next to a microwave oven, use poor cabling, or connect the power cable with reversed polarity. It will also not perform optimally if you use dirty or scratched CDs, and so on.

However, these errors are more obvious than the potential pitfalls in streaming. Here, it is worth taking a closer look at the software configuration and, above all, the network setup in order—as has rightly already been mentioned in this thread—to reduce influences that degrade sound quality. A lot had been written in this forum specifically about this point, and I do not want to repeat everything here. I can only say that with my setup I have achieved a truly convincing playback—for my personal taste—but of course, there is always room for improvement.

Personally, I use streaming (Qobuz) to stay up to date with new releases, and my purchasing behavior is such that I first check whether I can get an album as an HD download. If it is only available in CD quality, I very often buy the physical CD. Exceptions are downloads that include a booklet, which I then prefer. In my opinion, downloads in CD resolution sound comparable to ripped CDs, but you have to be careful to make sure you are really comparing the same mastering version. Unfortunately, this aspect is often overlooked.

For me, operating the app is exactly like physically accessing a data medium: I select an album, start playback, and put the tablet aside—I have never understood this point of discussion (also from other threads). :thinking:

Finally, two additional remarks about the Melco servers and apps:
So far, I have not been able to detect any sonic difference when using various apps (from Melco, Linn, and JPlay).
The chassis quality of the Melco N50 series corresponds to that of the old N1 server and is certainly not as massive as the N100 or higher series from the manufacturer. However, for me, something entirely different is decisive: My N1 server was in daily operation for almost 8 years until a few months ago—and without a single problem. It is still running today; I use it as a backup device. That was the reason for switching to the newer N50 generation. Beauty was not a deciding factor for me at this point.

I wish everyone here in this forum a lot of enjoyment listening to music, regardless of the medium!

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Yep I can’t be bothered with streaming for serious listening. I have a muso which I use very occasionally which is fine for background listening etc.

Any serious listening is vinyl with occasional CD. That’s how it’s going to stay for me.

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I’ve never liked streaming and have kept relying on CD since 1989. However I have or had a Naim HDX, various streamers, a Melco N50 and SD card transports on the side. Currently mainly use the Hifi Rose as the most ‘CD-like’ device but still prefer my Accuphase SACD player both for experience and sound quality. When I buy hires downloads I often downsample and burn a CD-R when I really like the music.

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What do you use to burn these on, and do you use any particular brand of CD-R’s? I’ve tried burning a few CD-R’s on our Macbook using an Apple drive and when I compared one with a commercially available CD I found that the commercial CD was noticeably better. The burnt CD-R was fine in isolation though.

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Hi 70sPete. Great theme and challenge re: CD v Streaming. Clearly it has a number of us interested judging by the responses in the last 24 hours.

Having tried Streaming briefly I was left feeling disappointed with the lack of physical ownership and by the thought that the artist was getting a poor return. As I already had a large CD library, I invested in CD ripping hardware backed up on to NAS. Firstly I started with the Naim HDX and now use the Innuos Zenith mk3. I find the ability to select from over 2600 CDs using my phone or iPad, and then listening to great music with wonderful sound is exciting and very rewarding.

I can understand someone starting out in this hobby without a musical library at hand, would see more upside using a Streamer.

Going forward, I may have to find a replacement for the Innuos thanks to reliability and/or software obsolescence. However the same issue is present for Streamers. In the meantime I will invest in CDs to build up that library which will not go away (it does mean that I have committed a fair amount of space for storage in the garage).

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Streaming certainly doesn’t have to be difficult or stressful.
Last year for instance when we had a room at the maverick show, we had a £20 wifi box to connect to the hotel network along with everyone else, a 10 meter long very cheap ethernet cable from that box to the system and guess what it sounded absolutely fantastic.
So no need to get stressed over it all at all.

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Forgive me if someone has mentioned this previously.

Aside from the other issues you have with streaming, did you investigate the possibility that this was an earthing issue, either signal or mains?

That would’ve been my first thought to be honest, rather than a network noise issue in and of itself. Obviously Naim equipment is very sensitive to earthing issues, you take the good with the bad.

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You can isolate the dac from network noise by buying a network streaming bridge and connecting it to the dac with an optical spdif cable.

I use a Primare NP5/ifi power supply with a VDH optocoupler into ndac. Nothing special with regards network cables or switches.
Plenty of musical coherence for a total cost of about £650.

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That’s more complicated than streaming.

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Imho get the P3 as well, quite a bargain for S/H in decent condition :grin: I sold my LP12 last week to get budget for a better config this summer, thought I could live solely with cd player for half a year. But in the end lot of great music from 70s 80s are best with vinyl and I miss it.

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Thanks for your reply @jay. I’m not sure quite how this could be an earthing issue of any description. Just to be clear - when talking about noise I’m not talking about audible noise, ie. hums or buzzes etc. This is out of band noise which manifests solely as impacting on musical coherence, ie. timing becomes less precise, pitch of notes is rendered less explicitly, musical phrasings become less easy to follow and so on. This sort of thing is well documented with regard to streaming and networks - hence the proliferation of products such as switches and network noise reduction devices of one sort or another. So no, not an earthing issue.

Our Melco was connected to our LAN via ethernet and to our Qutest DAC via USB. So no music was actually being streamed across our network, it was going straight from the Melco to the DAC. The network was only being used for control purposes via an app on our iPad. Nevertheless it was a route for network noise to enter the system. This despite having two Chord Ground Arays in the router, an EE8 switch and two EE1 isolators. I did consider getting an Adot kit to convert to optical to break the electrical connection between the system and network but this would have involved two more SMPS’s which are very noisy in themselves and additional wiring/connections. Space around the system is restricted and it would all have been getting rather silly going down this route. If I had been committed to streaming I may have investigated this or more expensive switches and isolation products. However we didn’t really want to commit any more money to it, I wasn’t enjoying it so the simplist option was to revert to CD playback which cost us nothing at all.

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