Hello all and Happy New Year!
I had a Supernait 2 a few years ago which I stupidly sold and went down an ‘upgrade’ path that lead me away from the Naim brand. I ended up with a Luxman LX-380, which is a great amp, but I can’t help but yearn for what i think was the best (certainly most enjoyable) sound I ever had with the SN2 / Rega P8 / Acoustic Energy AE-509s / REL T9X. Recently I plugged in my old late 80s Denon amp into my system to test it and get it ready to sell it on eBay. The trouble is I preferred the sound of it to the Luxman! The ageing Denon is nowhere near the quality of the Luxman, but I think it just comes down to personal preference or system synergy (or whatever the reason Is I prefer it). It reminded me strongly of that Supernait sound I was already missing. Anyway apologies for going on but i think I am now going to sell the Luxman and get myself another Supernait (not overly bothered if it’s a 2 or a 3 tbh.) The other question is would folks just go for separates ie would say a NAC202/NAP200 outperform a Supernait? (Or other combo?) This might even be cheaper by the look of it. I might be able to sell the Luxman for 3k so that’s the budget really, tho I would be able to add a little to the pot - maybe even add a Hi-cap or similar.
I mainly listen to classic rock and blues, but do also listen to folk, jazz and soul - if that makes any difference.
Any advice gratefully received, thanks!
PS you might wonder why I don’t just kept the Denon in place and trouser the 3 grand, but it doesn’t have a few functions that I really do want mainly no remote control and being able to use it to drive the front speakers when used with my AV amp.
Supernait 2 and 3 sounds pretty different. At the point where I had both I actually preferred supernait 2.
Yup . I second that . SN2 is pure analogue.
If you go for separates rather than the sn2 I’d look at hicap/282 and the 200DR. If you can run to it even the 250DR. Good prices on previously owned kit at the moment. On the other hand the SN2 is a real bargain for its performance.
Well seeing as though your main source is a turntable then the obvious candidate here will be a SN3. When the SN3 was released and reviewed by the press, and dealers alike, it was universally accepted all over that it was an improvement on its predecessor. Not long afterwards, Naim dropped the NAC202/NAP200 DR from their line. Make of that what you will…
I loved my SuperNait 2!
I eventually added a NAC 282 and used the SN 2 Power section and that sounded fantastic, an upgrade in itself. Not to long after that I traded in the SN 2 towards a one year old NAP 250 DR and that was a lovely upgrade as well. So I would recommend you skip past the NAC 202 and NAP 200 and look for the 282/250 DR combination on the used market.
Good luck with your search and decision!
In my opinion the NAC 202 / NAP 200 combo isn’t that different than a SN3, it just has a slightly different and more detailed sound. On the other hand if you consider the NAC 202 / NAP 200 DR and an external PSU like the FlatCap XS or HiCap DR, the sound will be much better than a SN3.
According to what you find in the s/h market, you might want to consider then NAC 282 / NAP 250 (or NAP 200) which is considered even better.
My impression is that most (but definitely not all) rate SN3 and Hicap as being materially better than a naked SN3, and reckon that that combo is a bit better than 202/200 (more swing/boogie, not more detail). Fewer, I think, would put a SN (even SN3) without a Hicap much ahead of 202/200, except of course that the SN3 has a jolly good MM phono stage.
Otoh, even among those here who have opted for the simple approach of SN or SN +Hicap seem to agree that stretching to a 282/Hicap/250 is a big step up.
If that is all very well but more than you want to spend, you may opt to do what we have done here in Tasmania. An ‘olive’ 82/ Hicap/250 (if serviced in the last 15-ish years) is very similar to a more modern-looking 282/HC/250 and prices for the olive gear are remarkable.
I hope that that helps.
Thank you all so much for your very detailed replies, much appreciated. There’s a lot of information there to digest. I can’t help but think the gist of it is don’t bother with the cheaper pre/power combo and get a Supernait (2 or 3) is the answer right now. I can then add a Hicap DR in the near future, and I have the option of going for a NAC 282 further down the line and then eventually sell the Supernait and buy a NAP 250.
That looks wise to me!
Mate don’t miss out on the added benefit that the 202/200 are cheaper because of this forum, go listen, they are honestly way better than integrated. And you can enjoy making them even better by adding napsc and hicap. At least give the separates a decent listen, next to a sn, hear and understand why these unassuming separated pulled many customers over to naim!
202/200 better sq than any sn, even bare… they were dropped because of Naim’s drift from its core brand beliefs and values towards mass market products, not dropped as evolution towards replacement products built for better sq (as would have been the case before the bean counters started steering the ship). Make of that what you will but many customers maintain preference to isolation of components and better sq over building simply to what is perceived that the market prefers
The NAC202 and NAP200 were discontinued for a few (real) reasons. Firstly, like everybody else, Naim were facing certain component supply issues and so a decision had to made as to how locating those components would be prioritised. Secondly, sales of the 202 and 200 had dropped considerably from their peak (possibly wide secondhand availability as well as the Supernait 2 and 3 had partially cannibalised sales here?) whereas the next levels up (282, 250 etc.) remained strong. And of course, thirdly, Naim were looking to bring production of the first wave of New Classics online and needed to re-jig factory space to make room and also needed to reallocate resource such as wiring personnel etc… Due to the space constraints and lack of availability of new skilled personnel in Salisbury, they even had to open up a new virtual wing of the factory in Slovakia! It meant that something had to give in the range, so ceasing production of the 202 and 200 became inevitable after such a long run.
This all sounds eerily similar to this thread (although different driver)
For what it’s worth, there’s no way I would take any Supernait in preference to a 202/200, or even the lesser 152/155XS that was also discontinued, for any reason other than a desire for fewer boxes.
I came to this conclusion after exploring these combinations with my dealer during several listening sessions, and much as I wanted the simpler 1 box solution to work for me, it just didn’t stand up to comparison, so I didn’t buy it.
I mention this purely to provide a bit of balance to the plethora of ‘my Supernait is the best’ posts that regularly appear here.
To the OP I would suggest that unsubstantiated claims read online (including mine!) should never be
used as a basis for your own decisions: they should be made by listening, not reading.
Yes but a) this forum does have a wealth of knowledge/experience b) not everyone is biased c) quite hard now to have pre-purchase listening sessions with older naim separates
It isn’t the same comparison, but I was (actually very) surprised recently when I bought an '87 vintage 42.5/110 and preferred them to my XS3, by quite a margin. Now serviced, and with added similar vintage and serviced HiCap, they are sounding even better.
It was a gamble, bought unheard, but I thought I could sell them on readily enough if it didn’t work out. Lots of options in Naim amplification if you’re buying used and have £1-2k to spend… which is a good or bad thing depending on your outlook 
I agree, but distinguishing the large number of biased claims stated here from genuine experience is not easy, and even then that often ignores the issues of matching the amp to the source, speakers, room and personal preferences.
There are two approaches that can help to find the right system. One is to find a proper dealer who can guide you through the choices. It may seem more expensive, but it can save money by avoiding bad choices too. The other is to buy used items, but accept that you may end up with mismatches and be prepared to sell stuff on and try something else. The forum can, I concede, help in drawing up a shortlist of possibilities, but really that’s about as far as it goes.
Agree with all that.
I wouldn’t bother with a 202/200 over a SN2/3. I would go (minimum) 282/200 or even better 250. Otherwise it’s just side stepping. No point. Probably why 202/200 lost so many sales in the dealership. That was my point, make of that what you will. I see Richard has given us a more accurate explanation above.
P.S the SN3 is an attractive buy with its built-in phono stage and that it is still in current production. Sales must still be good and the fact that it warrants their white logo too boot.