I think you sacrifice a lot of 3D imaging (as artificial as that may be) with wall huggers. It’s a challenging design restriction. SBLs and DBLs certainly herald from the “soundstage is fake is so we don’t do it” era of Naim’s philosophy.
I think the wall hugger market has been largely taken up by the on-wall market. With PMC, ATC, and others doing true floorstander sized speakers for custom “in-wall” install with optional surroundings cabinets for converting to on-wall mounting.
I know a few people who solved the domestic harmony situation with the very large PMC custom install speakers hung on the wall instead of in wall and they are delighted.
I’ve been totally converted to on-wall for combining real hifi with living restrictions. I wrote them off for decades but have been proved wrong.
as long as front to back holographic imaging isn’t your goal.
Sure right, but I don’t really care for such hifi effect, maybe OP’s friend think otherwise ?.
I believe hifi soundstage is mostly a wrong scenario, not something you experience in the same way in live scenes.
But I admit its high priority for many listeners.
As for Naim loudspeakers, some of them were able to create that live feeling, “you were there” not sitting and looking into the stage.
At a live performance that depends where you listen relative to the performers, also whether it is largely acoustic or amplified. Sitting near the front for an orchestral performance certainly can have a strong depth of soundstage.
My daughter uses a Planar 3 plus Brio plus Piega TMicro 5 speakers. I use Piega TS5s. We both use them against the wall. Both models have been superseded but current models will still be room friendly & s/h samples do crop up. Depending where you live Piega are not easy to demo but they will fit the bill and they do look beautiful (in our opinion). Worth a go if you live near a Piega dealer.
Up to a certain point. I have a very vivid recollection of when I had CDX2/202/hiCap/200/SBLs. The speakers were 12 cm from the wall (where I’ve always placed my Naim speakers, independent of model) and I was playing this CD
and although I was not experiencing 3D imaging, I can say that I had a clear feeling of the distance of the piano from me, and of the recording venue’s size.. A more live feeling and a welcome one in the world of recordings.
I would put in a plus for the Larsen and Guru, I owned the Larsen model 4.2 for almost six years, and they just made great music in my space. I’d not owned any speaker that long at the time, save my Duevel Venus. The Guru QM 10 or Juniors also another great recommendation, works great depending on room size, and I love Kans, and think the Juniors outdo them. Quite a few good wall boundary speakers noted by all above, each with their own flavor. Have fun!
Neat Ministras are designed for close to wall use,
“The Ministra is a boundary design, intended for discreet close-to-wall placement.” From the Neat website. Should be in budget if bought used. Neat usually work well with Naim amplification. And I think a few Aussie members on here use Neat, so I suspect they’re available over there?
I certainly experience it at the concerts I go to and hearing it in a recording enhances the live experience for me. It’s a lot more than a “hifi effect”. Conductors often care greatly about the orchestral layout — split or unified violins, for example, and I want to hear that.
Lots of good choices here. Only problem is most are not available in Australia so would have to buy imported sight unheard.
The only system I can see that is available to audition is Neat Iota + Exposure 2510 integrated. And that’s in Sydney 1500km away…
There a few local REGA dealers but they don’t seem to have any of the speakers suggested here.
There has been allot of good advice re suitable speakers…indeed I am a huge fan of the Linn Kan…however - and its a big however…putting speakers up against a wall is not a good idea…it tends to destroy stereo depth, effect detail - especially in vocal area and can alter the frequency response. I am not saying you cant get an enjoyable result - but there is a rub. For an example I have a small room and I am forced to have my speakers around 300mm from front wall…when I placed 6 inch thick bass traps behind my speakers the difference was astounding…not in the bass (although that was better) but in the level of detail from lower to upper mids… So I can see why most speaker manufacturers recommend at least 3 feet from the front wall.
In general it is usually best to be either very close or a good distance out, in between likely more problematic. Close to wall minimises comb filter effects (flush mounting avoids completely), but SBIR - Speaker Boundary Interference Response - then comes into play in particular a shelving bass boost, which is fine if the speakers’ response allows for it, but otherwise may be negative (depending on other room effects).
I think this sums up the advantage of Naim boundary designs over others. You get scale and dynamics perhaps at the, for me, small cost of reduced depth. Sounds are precise within a more 2D sonic landscape. They engage and draw you in. The OP could do worse than source a good old pair of SBLs and give them a try. Move them on if not to his taste.
Not sure there are many SBLs floating around in good condition or with much life left in them. Tweeters aren’t available and I don’t think the PAXOs are serviced anymore.
While I agree that as a speaker, it would be the logical thing to try, I just think they are huge risk at that age with few repair options and the dice loaded against you.
People with SBLs and DBLs are resorting to various third parties for restoring the bass cones or making new grilles.
Agreed, ours are mint condition, and i bought 2 new tweeters when i heard they were about to be discontinued, bass drivers also show no sign of age as I think they were replaced at some point. Be careful of course, but there are good ones around, good luck
Martin
I totally agree…there is more to music reproduction than the illusion of stereo depth…the Naim boundary designs are about as good as your goung to get they are dynamic and fun to listen to. But…there is no doubt ultimately with the right speaker in the right room … kept away from walls by at least 3 feet…there are certain benefits. I know studios use speaker in wall solutions but these are bedpoke solutions specifically designed for those locations…and even then it depends on what the studio is wanting the set up for…
I always felt that for a wall boundary speaker, my Larsen Model 4.2 did a fairly decent job of giving some stage depth. I really enjoyed those speakers.
