Brexit or Bust!


#456

It’s a fact. I know many people who voted Leave thinking that Remain was such a dead cert, that they wanted to bring Cameron down a peg or two!

They included both of my brothers and their wives. Plus a few cousins. All living within a few miles of Sunderland!

Totally and utterly pathetic. And they regret it!


#457

People citing various op/eds, comment pieces etc as if they were fact

  • this perfectly defines the cmapaigns that led to the 2016 referendum. I’m suprised you didn’t mention that :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

#458

The vote should be put back to the people, but this time folk should just simply tick or cross the question " Do you have a shed " ?
Brexit really boils down to this. Those with sheds have them filled with old jam jars containing buttons, old tobacco tins filled with blunt rusty drill bits and a tea chest with a striped beach windbreaker.
Those without sheds don’t have these sort of things anymore.
If the vote shows that more have sheds than those that don’t, a second vote will be put forward for those who own them - to keep it or let someone come and take it away ?
Also giving those who don’t have sheds the option to vote that they are still happy without one or if they want one ?
Thirdly the government will process this information and extrapolate the correct outcome.


#459

Sounds like a delay in exocution if Brexit is needed to do all that. Shall we say 100 years?

(Edited: pesky phone put 209 years when I typed 200!)


#460

Brilliant Debs…Well said.

ATB Graham.


#462

30th March. Theresa May resignation speech.


#463

Members of my family also voted as a protest vote and had nothing to do with EU. They just didn’t like Cameron and the Tories.


#464

In the wide arc of history democracies of any sort are exceedingly rare. Stupid people making protest votes is probably one of the reasons. Both of are countries are now suffering from these “protest” voting decisions.


#465

I haven’t fully understood the DUP’s objection to the backstop – can anyone who knows better than me help please? is it simply that NI would be treated ‘differently’ (effectively more aligned with EU – and the Republic) rather than with the UK??

enjoy/ken


#466

Hi Ken,

I don’t fully understand either what the Backstop is nor what the “problem” with it is.

I “think” the DUP are concerned that it could last forever, or certainly long enough, for NI to gradually morph itself into Eire (Apologies Sloop, I know you don’t like it, but it’s written on the front of your Eire/Irish/EU Passport :sunglasses:) (and I know that I haven’t put the Axcent over the E ! it’s too difficult on this forum !)

However, I have just listened to Jeremy Vine whilst having lunch and there was an NI business lady who was incredibly enthusiastic that the Backstop would boost the NI economy four-fold and turn NI into the Singapore and Hong Kong of Europe.

Basically “tariff free” trade between GBR and the EU could take place via NI. Rather than goods going directly Sheffield - Munich or vice versa and being subject to WTO tariffs, they would go via Belfast, tariff free.

Now I know this doesn’t answer your question, and it doesn’t provide any clarity to me neither, but perhaps over the next day or so, interviews like this might shed some light on the subject.

Who needs Brain Teasers when we’ve got Brexit ! :sunglasses:


#467

Indeed Don, who needs brain teasers!!!

Interesting who you see the potential benefits of NI straddling both the EU (open border) and non EU (part of UK when/(if?) we leave)

Anyone on this forum who is close to DUP and understand the intricacies please chime in and educate us.

I also wonder what Sinn Fein’s position is in all this is – but this is a separate issue – for now, I just want to understand DUP’s position a bit more.

And, am I correct that it was TM who insisted on this backstop arrangement during negotiations with EU in order not to compromise GFA?

enjoy/ken


#468

If the backstop comes into force the whole of the UK will be part of a customs union, not just NI. The Eu initially proposed NI was treated differently to the rest of the UK, (border in the Irish Sea). but the UK government wouldn’t agree to this.

The backstop (customs union) will only come into force if a trading agreement that maintains a soft border isn’t agreed by the end of 2020 (I think). However, at that time the UK government have the option to decide to implement the backstop, or to extend the negotiating period. The UK government will have to pay a fee to extend, but it is their choice. I think TM has suggested parliament can vote which option to take, if the need arises.

IMO, the backstop is non issue, just an excuse for some people to reject TM deal.

With regards the DUPs position. There are two options on the table, TM deal or hard brexit. One results in a soft border, the other a hard border. They are rejecting the soft border option, therefore must be prefer the hard border option. Or am I being too cynical.:thinking:


#469

I don’t think the DUP want NI to be any different to the rest of the UK. Otherwise they fear a drift towards Ireland.

Personally, if the peace in NI is so fragile that any form of border infrastructure to control goods and tariffs could wreck it, I would suggest we have more to concern ourselves with than Brexit !


#470

any Irish contributors here around to throw some more light on all this?

enjoy/ken


#471

Arlene Foster was on Today earlier this morning between 8:10 & 8:25, and did cover this subject. iPlayer, or Sounds now.


#472

care to summarize her position?
enjoy/ken


#473

The DUP also object to NI being treated differently to the UK eg some sort of border down the Irish sea. In other words, while preserving equivalence on tariffs, standards etc between Ireland and NI through the maintenance of a ‘customs union’ on the island of Ireland would ‘solve’ the practical problem of the land boundary, if that meant creating a difference in those tariffs and standards to England, Wales and Scotland the DUP would vote against. In fairness the PM has said the same as she is the leader of the Conservative and Unionist party. So the problem is presentational/political as well as practical.


#474

So would you be happy for the part of the country you live in to have different rules and regulations to the rest of the UK so it that it better aligns with your closest EU country? I’m in north east England so perhaps we should be more aligned with Finland?

I think Rep of Ireland and the EU should accept that Northern Ireland is part of the UK and British and will remain so until the majority of people who live there want otherwise.

Perhaps there’s a little opportunism at work here by Rep of Ireland and EU.

Besides, any form of Brexit, deal or no deal, is likely to end in the medium to long term with the break up of the UK. Scotland and N. Ireland voted remain and that in itself should be enough to stop Brexit.


#475

That isn’t true, the whole of the UK will be in a customs union with the EU if the back stop comes into force.

I’ve just listened to Arlene Foster’s BBC interview, I’d say she’s inadvertently misled or misspoke.
She said the hard border would be moved from Ireland/NI to NI/Rest of UK. There won’t be a border in the Irish Sea, all that will happen is checks on food and live animals entering NI from the UK will increase to ensure EU standards are met.

She suggested there would be problems transporting goods from NI to the rest of UK. I’m pretty sure this isn’t true, the checks only apply to goods coming into NI.

She also suggested these standards checks will lead to NI leaving the EU.:handbag:


#476

The whole UK could be locked into a customs union (with no say on the rules and regs) but N. Ireland alone would be locked into much of the EU single market for goods, unlike the rest of the UK.