Brexit or Bust!


#620

I did that just before the end of last year. He is firmly behind TM despite his constituency being in favour of Remaining.

Over the past two and a half years I (amongst others) have provided insight via the CAA about the anticipated threats and opportunities that Brexit might bring to the aviation industry. Brexit brings more problems than it solves. Leaving EASA, which comes with Brexit unless HMG does something causes even more problems. I tried. I can’t do anything more.


#621

Another campaign would be different and the outcome would carry more weight precisely because at least we now have some clue as to what we would be voting for, unlike in the last referendum. Further, the young voters who have joined the electoral role in the two years since the first referendum deserve to have a say in what is likely to be the most important political decision of their lives.

And yes - if the vote of a second referendum were to be in favour of leaving I would be absolutely dismayed, but I would accept the vote. You can choose whether to believe me or not.


#622

There was no lack of clarity in the referendum - Leave or a Remain. Get divorced or not. Anybody not understanding that or the significance of the implications isn’t likely to get it second time around (imho). And the kids will still not be bothered. How often do they vote anyway? Relying on them is a risky strategy.

The mess we are in is not down to the Leave decision - it is wholly down to the Government’s crack-handed approach (shall we, shalln’t we, shall we, shalln’t we etc etc). And there is no guarantee that another government will do any better …

The sooner we are out, on WTO terms, the sooner we start a new life without that bullying, domineering, despicable partner that we currently have to put up with …

No, actually, I don’t believe you. Why would I?


#624

I agree there was no lack of clarity in the voting options. Let’s face it - a choice of one out of two options makes it very difficult to tick the wrong box by mistake. And anybody not understanding that aspect, would be classified as a real dimwit IMHO and I agree with you, isn’t likely to get it second time around. . But that’s not the point.

It’s the “or the significance of the implications” where I disagree with your assessment. It’s my opinion that a significant proportion of the electorate has woken up (out of the Sleepwalk and to the lies and deceit) to the significance of the implications and “would get it second time around”


#625

9 out of 12 UK regions voted to leave
270 out of 399 counting areas
Mercia and Wessex both voted strongly to leave.
I hope our wishes are not ignored.

Strange thing is this HiFi forum and when folk argue something will not give an improvement the cry goes up “have you tied it”. So to those who still doubt leaving the EU is better for us “have you tried it?”. Go on give it a go and you may find it is much better that you imagine. You know it makes sense.

Imagine there’s no EU. It’s easy it you try. Nobody to take our money and pour it down the drain. People say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one (17,410,742 at last count). I hope other European countries will join us and the world can live as one.

Of course, we were lied to - the EU openly admit they tell lies: When it becomes serious, you have to lie - Jean Claude Junker.

Juncker played a leading role in shaping the Lisbon Treaty and advised Gordon Brown, then Prime Minister, to mislead the British public over "transfers of sovereignty”. He said “Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,” he said of Mr Brown and British calls for a referendum on his Lisbon Treaty.

If you do an Internet search for these quotes you’ll find they’re 100% genuine.

Still as Mr J now knows you can’t fool all the people all of the time.

Incidentally, I and thousands of other Mercians and men of Wessex have written to our MPs urging them to respect the result of the referendum and my own MP confirmed he will do just that.

Anyway as it is getting late, it’s time to end with a song (please click)


#626

Okay i’ve just sent my MP an email - using the link you provided, Thanks!

I titled my email: 'Brexit is undermining UK democracy’

i also sent him an email last December, just before the HoC vote on TM’s daft withdrawal vote [ the vote that TM postponed until last month ]. He didn’t answer my email then, and going by the fact he’s a very right wing Tory bull buggering Bar Steward with boneheaded Brexit blinkers, and nearly always votes in Parliament the exact opposite to how i want to be represented, …i won’t hold my breath waiting for his reply for this second message either.

But never mind, it’s the thought that counts :roll_eyes:


#627

If, on a long journey, you approach a two-way junction and hesitate as to which way to go … you’re told that the one way will lead you back to where you are. But the other way will lead you forward … the road is fine and everything will be good (but some advice is dismissive and says you shouldn’t believe) …

… so for 2~3 years you stand around thinking, asking questions … and now you know that the alternative will lead you down a rocky path where you’ll struggle to retain your balance and it’s highly unlikely you’ll be in such good shape when you arrive (there’s a chance … but it’s so unlikely you might as well bet on the National Lottery …)

A stupid analogy but it makes the point of where we are. Can there really be any Leaver who still thinks the future is rosy? Is the risk of recession, austerity and general hardship which Leave will bring really worth being able to say We’ve brought back control?

Just what are the perceived benefits of Leave? It can’t be the UK’s wealth since this is already in decline and will worsen once we’ve left; it can’t be control of our borders because the UK will have to accept immigration from other countries in order to agree trade deals; it can’t be world influence because we’re already the laughing stock and have little/no credibility left …

Yes, I’m a Remainer and would applaud TM if she had the guts to stand up and say that, despite her best efforts, Brexit is not a reality and if a Political Party wants to canvass for that in the next GE, so be it … but it’s not going to happen under her watch.

But this won’t happen. Too many people are too dogmatic and even though the country (England + Scotland + Wales + Northern Ireland) will suffer as a result … Brexit in some form or another will happen.

I’m old enough not to worry too much … I’ll probably be dead within 10 years … I’ve had the benefits of EC/EU membership for all of my adult life (till now) and provided the State pension isn’t reduced too much and inflation isn’t too high, I’ll survive these last few years. But I’m sorry my children and their contemporaries … and their kids … will suffer and not have such a good life.

Just a rant? Of course … as the days disappear I get more despondent. I don’t want a second/confirmatory referendum … the UK public were conned in 2016 and there’s a risk they’ll be conned a second time. I just want our leaders to do their job and protect this country.

If anyone knows, could they reply: just how many £billions have been wasted on this fiasco to date (I’m not including the Eur Billions our fellow Europeans have wasted, too) … and just think what good that money could have achieved. It’s probably enough to wipe out hospital waiting lists, or eliminate the council tax surcharge for community care, or student debt, or … all of the above!

After Brexit, will the Leave supporters be explaining why things haven’t worked out the way they thought it would … or merely say this was the not the Brexit they wanted?
Depressed


#628

And why am I not at all surprised that you would choose to respond in this way?


#629

So, support the request for a confirmatory referendum. If you truly believe people want to leave then you have nothing to lose.

As for accepting, I can’t answer for anyone else but I have apmade it abundantly clear that if there is acconfirmatory referendum I, for one, will absolutely accept it, with nocompkaints.


#630

The main objection to a second referendum seems to be “We want to avoid upsetting Farage and his cronies”

Oh dear. Is that the best you can do? The only dismayed parties are those who are too dim to understand that the EC’s sticking up for its members, as it should do, or the fake wringing of hands by the usual brexiteer crew.

Pretty desperate and disingenuous of you to cast doubt on our integrity, isn’t it?

I know It’s futile responding to your trolling, but it’s raining out…


#631

[quote=“YNWA250505, post:619, topic:163”]
The problem with your position/argument is that nobody said ever there would be a 2nd referendum
[/quote]


#632

They are separate countries that are part of the UK. Neither Scotland nor N. Ireland wanted an EU referendum and both voted to remain. Those facts should be respected.

You are critical of the EU’s attitude to its members but your attitude to the members of the UK is far worse.


#633

:+1:


#634

I’m not interested in appeasing right wing extremists.

Why is a 2nd referendum is justified?

We now know the deal.

No majority in Parliament for any form of Brexit.

N Ireland & Scotland voted remain. After Brexit, N Ireland will be more aligned to Rep of Ireland & EU, and both will vote to leave the UK. The UK will cease to exist.

Vote Leave unlawfully overspent and misled us.

Why different? I will be more difficult for Vote Leave to mislead the public. I’m have no idea which side will win. If Leave wins then that will be the end of it. If remain wins then they were justified in calling for another referendum and the win has equal weight.


#635

I have made it crystal clear that if Scotland, and anybody else, wants to leave the UK and votes to do so, then I support them. As I said previously, go for it - I applaud the pursuit of independence.

Whereas the EU is determined to keep the UK bound to their rules and processes - imprisoned actually! They are doing everything possible to frustrate our departure (which is why TM’s deal was so heavily defeated).

If you can’t see the difference between those positions, then I can’t explain further because that’s as clear as I can make it.


#636

I didn’t know what you meant by “trolling” so I looked it up. Having done so, I can only refer you to an old adage about people in glasshouses …


#637

‘Trolling’ has seemingly morphed into an epithet hurled indiscriminately at anyone with an opposing view.


#641

My guess it that most of the of the UK will disagree with you and want to keep the UK together. Most realise that we are stronger together for so many reasons such as trade, world politics/influence, security, and the economy. However, after Brexit, N Ireland and Scotland will want out.

The UK is free to leave the EU, they are not holding anyone prisoner. You cannot expect the EU to give the UK everything it demands without protecting their own interests. That’s one of the delusions promoted by Vote Leave and you’re still singing their tune.

You haven’t made anything clear except your own opinions.


#642

Is this the way you think? Don’t know it this was said in the role of EU executive or as a friend of the UK … If the latter one and comparing this kind of acting with personal relationship to friends it also can show that somebody cares for you. For me (again on personal relationship) I definitly consider friends as valuable friends that sometimes say things I don’t like but simultaneously I know that they don’t want to question the friendship but simply are worried about me. So, I always prefer consider to what has been said rather than how - as this is my way to demonstrate the value of a relationship. And, probably naive, things that work out on small scale can also be a pattern for large scale.


#643

You need to take a breath. I posted that a while ago, best keep up & current.