How did the chord thing run out of steam? Chord dacs are as popular as they ever were.
2 Likes
I think you will find that itâs your speakers and room that influence sq more than any DAC. Canât say I have heard massive changes with any modern DAC.
1 Like
What do you count as modern, and have you heard Chord Dave? Obviously what differences anyone will hear depends on the rest of the system, which includes the room, but to me Chord Hugo was noticeably better sounding than the DAC in ND5XS, while Chord Dave was dramatically different - so much so that my musician son sitting next to me at the dealer when Hugo TT was changed to Dave, he having no idea what we were listening to, nor in what order, said âwow!â just a few bars into the first piece of music, echoing my silent reaction. (That was fed with Audirvana on Mac Mini, output direct into Bryston 4BSST2 power amp driving PMC Fact 12 speakers, in a dealerâs room with some acoustic treatment.)
That may be true, depending on the exact system one is referring to.
But my comment was in relation to whether a DAC is a source.
And my point was that: of the parts of the signal chain that precede the amp, the DAC (typically) has the greatest influence on SQ.
I find it fascinating and frustrating in equal measure that it is so hard to find a streaming set-up that makes music sound errr musical, yet so very easy to lose that very essence of the emotional connection to the music being played.
I found a bare DAVE to sound very hifi but not naturally musical when I first auditioned it. The DCS Rossini was vastly worse, bringing massive resolution but no music. M Scaler was a transformative improvement for DAVE in terms of musical connection to these cloth ears, while the Rossini Clock delivered very little improvement in terms of Hifi stuff but brought a stunning level of emotional connection to the same music in the same system as the bare Rossini. In both cases, I was genuinely shocked at the improvement.
In a different vein, I âupgradedâ the short (30cm or so) dc supply cable from the Paul Hynes SR4T power supply to our EtherRegen switch from posh copper to silver and music sounded calmer and more naturally engaging in a good way.
On the basis of this, I did the same âupgradeâ for the opticalRenduâs SR4T supply and the music just died flat on its face. After a call to the supplier, a second one was dispatched pdq. It too killed the music. End result? We have the original copper one on the OpticalRendu and a silver one on the EtherRegen. Why the difference? No idea but several repeats of the exercise gave the same outcome. I darenât change it now either.
I still find that emotional connection to streamed music to be an essential yet fragile phenomenon, however cheap or posh the dac itself may be. Am I the only one?
Whenever the big system âwent offâ and I wondered if I was going nuts, a quick dose of the office Naim DAC-V1 based system provided a great calibration. In over a dozen years of almost daily use, the only time the DAC-V1 based system has lost the music was when I replaced a no name USB cable with an expensive Vertere one between the Mac mini and the DAC-V1. Surely that would be a no brainer upgrade? Nope. The system couldnât hold a beat to save its life. The No name USB cable went back in and has stayed there ever since.
Best regards, BF
5 Likes
And yet Naim and many others (Luxman springs to mind) are still building brand new products that are rating very highly using DACs from the late 90âs.
Working in IT close to development for over 25 years one thing I know for certain is that when it comes to software and hardware, there are always ânewâ iterations dressed as advancements. Actual âadvancementâ for most things is a lot slower than the consumer is led to believe.
I doubt the tech in the Dave is really lagging behind a modern DAC. Although I am sure it is many âiterationsâ behind.
Oh yes! Iâm convinced that imperfection is better than perfection. Weâre human.
Good morning by the way. This is more a Friday evening wine beer topic.
2 Likes
Ardberg,
I try to be understood but failed. What I mean is that, in the case of Steve Huff reviews for example, but itâs very common to most hifi reviews ( except Stereophile or HificriticâŠ), the reviewer said that the Dave dac was outstanding. Then, some weeks later, he wrote that the Weiss was better, then the Denafrips still betterâŠ.So you have outstanding, then more than outstanding, and then more than more outstandingâŠ.Stratosphericically outstanding. Better than perfect. Itâs a bit ridiculous.
Or you have « this dac punches way above his price, at the level of some that cost 4 times more ». Then a month later the another one dac is still much better vs the last one, so it have to sound now as good as other dacs costing 8 times more.
2 Likes
I understand French Rooster. Iâm usually also annoyed by the hyperboles created by hifi reviewers. Iâm still happy when I listen to my tda1540 in my Philips CD 104.
2 Likes
Maybe the DAC chipset, but I would assume the implementation will have changed. Some have said here before that itâs not the chip, but what you do with it.
Itâs the chip - and what you do with it.
Is that one better than a no brainer?
1 Like
OMG, I feel a nervous breakdown coming on. Thanks for catching the typo Jim. I try so hard to edit them out before anyone else spots them. Itâs a bit harder though when using an iPhone Mini screenâŠ
1 Like
Ifi yes, Topping beware Iâd say. I tried a D50s and thought it sounded pretty nasty - cheese grater for the ears! Gushing reviews on the internet but steer well clear. Ifi Zen One signature is excellent, though, and this time the reviews can be believed imo.
2 Likes
Exactly, more so what you do with it. Adding an external PSU to any Naim streamer brings a profound upgrade but the chip hasnât changed.
Not sure thatâs true. Yes, the power supplies give a subjective upgrade. But Naim clearly place high significance on the chips used otherwise they wouldnât go out of their way to use such a very specific (and discontinued) family of chips, nor would they spend so much effort grading and rejecting them before product assembly.
4 Likes
I agree to disagree, I donât think itâs subjective. I can call on probably hundreds is not thousands of users who auditioned and purchased external Naim or other PSUs, many (including Naim) would have blind tested, they canât all be wrong.
I do appreciate technology moves on and that maybe some implementors of relatively cheap DACs may have got the design spot on, so they may then rival more expensive older technology. It wonât be the DAC though that will be the decider, as other OEMs will be using the same factory DAC without necessarily the same result.
I did see a review recently that placed the Gustard A26 and R26 at or about Chord DAVE level, for circa ÂŁ1.5k. I hold judgement on that however, how much was the reviewer paid, maybe just the price of a freebie unit 
.
When these âmullet DACsâ become more available and proper blind tests are performed, not just measurements of various factors and an actual subjective view, then it will become clearer.
Having said all of that, I donât have my head in the sand, I do intend to order a âmullet DACâ at some point, with a return option, and do my own comparison. Itâs just that there are so many âcontenders for the crownâ now and more every month with no blind testing, each subjectively better than the last, how does anyone decide?
Thereâs nothing about this hobby that isnât subjective. For the record, to me, it makes a big difference. Certainly I have an XPSdr on my NDX. But there really are a lot of people who didnât like what it did and went bare. Itâs not a matter of wright and wrong. Itâs a matter of personal preference. i.e. subjective. Just like how no one agrees on which cable sounds best or whether a 252 is really better than a 282.
3 Likes
I agree @feeling_zen thereâs a huge amount of subjectivity in this game, and that personal preference is the key. However, if you could blind test with a huge statistical population and get one statistically clear preference then probably those that disagree with the majority have something else going on. Theyâre not wrong, itâs their preference, but itâs not how most would hear it. Unfortunately, sometimes itâs that minority that shouts the loudest or have axes to grind, so there will never be a complete consensus and we have to sort the âwheat from the chaffâ. Sorry if thatâs a bit like politics , but thatâs why Iâm sceptical of single reviewers shouting out the âbest everâ sound.
The elephant in this thread for me is which mullet DACs are a preference to Naim users, or maybe everyoneâs just in the same confused camp as me? Is the latest SMSL/Topping/Ifi etc. really as good as the press and how to they really stack up against the Naim streamers/DACs? I think thatâs the real $64,000 question for most of us?
2 Likes
Not in the case of an XP5XS on an ND5XS, where the improvement was marginal to my ears, whereas adding a Chord Hugo external DAC made a very marked difference (for the better to my taste)
2 Likes