Budget turntables

I think I’ve gone down about 15 in my naim/Linn days :grinning:

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For what it’s worth, I’d go for the Debut Pro deck if I was buying now, it looks like good value for money and nicely spec’d. I have an Essential III that I made some upgrades to over time, such as the acrylic platter and an Ortofon 2M Red, however for all that I could have bought the Debut Pro for not much more total cost if it was available at the time. I’m less sure about the pre-amp, mine is a lower spec Project Phono Box, so it is probably the weak link in the chain. I picked up a few second hand records last weekend (Talking Heads Stop Making Sense and INXS The Swing) and to me they sounded a little thin at first listen. Even though old pressings, I am thinking it is a pre-amp issue. I started looking, there seem a few around in that AUD$500-$750 range worth considering (such a Cambridge, Musical Fidelity etc).

All that said, the thing I am struggling with in respect of vinyl is the value equation. I visited Paddington Markets Record Fair last Saturday, at which I bought the two vinyl mentioned above, for a total of $50. New and second hand vinyl generally seems really expensive, as compared to second hand CD’s, which are so cheap at the moment and seem largely ignored at record fairs. By comparison, I picked up 11 CD’s for a total of $37. I’ve ripped them to my USB hard drive attached to my Intel NUC and stream them via Roon, which gets way more use that I could ever give a turntable. Even new CD’s are circa AUD$21 at RedEye, JB etc, whereas vinyl is more than twice the price at least. Anyway, horses for courses I guess.

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I’m with you on that one NGS

Vinyl at Red Eye seems to be going through the roof somewhat

I know there’s a lot of factors involved in the manufacture of vinyl , I think they even use crude oil of some sort.

All which means one has to be very selective/ choosing wisely on a purchase

Bevo

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I’d have to echo the sentiments above and suggest you look at second-hand for a turntable and phono amp - much bigger bang for your buck. A bit more mucking round of course, and you’d want to budget for a service (or diy - change the bearing oil, a new belt, set up the arm etc.) and fit a new cartridge/stylus.

I don’t know how Aussie prices compare (I’m in NZ), but I built up a TT with a Technics SP10 MKII, SME 3009 arm, Shure V15 cartridge (with a new JICO stylus) on a plinth from Big Auction Site for the sort of money you’re looking at.

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Don’t ignore the Michell Tecnodec either - it fits in your budget, is a cut above the Rega P3 level and looks cool…

At today’s prices unless you have a vinyl collection in the attic then getting into vinyl is going to be an expensive business. You could quite easily spend more than the cost of your turntable in the first year just starting a collection of discs.

One other thing - I really would budget for a moving coil cartridge, when I moved from a well respected MM cartridge to a budget Audio Technica AT-F5 moving coil the sudden increase in airyness and transparency was a revelation… To me that’s the point at which the vinyl magic starts to happen. Also bear in mind that the law of diminishing returns sets in a lot later with vinyl than digital sources. It’s quite possible to get really good sound out of a cheap budget CD player or streamer. I ran a Logitech Squeezebox into a Naim system for years and that only cost £200 and was unbelievably good. That simply isn’t true with turntables - the budget stuff like a Rega Planar 3 simply sounds nowhere near as good as a fully loaded Michell, Linn, SME etc - and a £10 000 turntable is where you’ll need to be to get close to/better the performance of say a £3000 Naim streamer. Then again that huge mountain to climb is one of the things that makes vinyl so unbelievably addictive.

Even with an NDX sat in the room, my GyroDec/SMEIV is my favourite source. It’s the most fun to use, it generally sounds better than the streamer (depending on pressing quality etc) and vinyl is the nicest format of them all and encourages you to read the sleeve notes and really soak up an album in its entirety rather than flipping between tracks the way we tend to do in the streaming age. Playing vinyl is special somehow, using a streamer is using an appliance the way you use a dishwasher.

Enjoy the journey - the adventure is just beginning…

Jonathan

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More rabbit holes than Watership Down.

And thanks to developers - that’s another rabbit hole .

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For me a budget TT mostly sounds more fun than an expensive one. And the difference in SQ between a budget TT with good mm/mc cart vs expensive TT with good mm/mc isn’t that great what you like it to be.

Great reply thank you , a friend who passed away 8 years ago wife rang me to say that she’s just found my vinyl that I’d left with them in the 80s (apparently in between marriages). God knows what’s there and what condition it’s in but I’m looking forward to hearing it again.

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‘like’

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Pete, I’m on an Rp3/Ort Blue and like it a lot for the money … a new P3/Exact/Fono mk5 is Aus$2k here, not sure in Oz? As others have said, raiding the piggy bank and squeezing it to an RP6 would be ideal with your kit.

I’ve done it and wouldn’t again. I got records back from friends I’d given them to and they’d stopped using them. Got a Rega p3 and thought life would be simple. Couldn’t stop it humming as cartridge went towards centre in 2 system’s There’s no proper earth from the tt to their own or others phono stage. No hum with another tt…
I think CD or streaming is what we’ve got used to now in terms of dust clicks etc and of course getting near that qualify of playback really entails an expensive tt and phono preamp/cartridge. The skeleton regas I don’t think look nice though they may sound great. I love the look of the Mitchell but it’s about £3000 and Linn is a minefield of upgrades.
Vinyl itself is dear and expectations of it higher because the quality of what you listen through now in terms of amps and speakers is higher and the other mediums are so good.
New vinyl seems to be of variable quality… not much point it being 180g vinyl if the bloody thing is warped!
I found a Springsteen album I bought in 1981 and it played well and was far flatter than many I’ve bought in the last few years.
There are quite a few Rega and other turntables bought during lockdown and up for sale again. Maybe from upgrades or because people found similar hitches to the vinyl dream…
I enjoy the 300 or so albums here but if we were burgled I think it’s unlikely I’d replace and spend the money on something else.
Go see a good dealer try a TT at home for a week and do the maths on the cost of how many records you might buy. Then work out the base cost of the equipment for each record!

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Any deck bar Project, they are mostly poor built.

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To throw a shoe in the works, have you considered buying a used turntable. Also there are some good ones that are less mainstream than the usual choices, including the Gyrodeck’s and other quirky ones. I have a Townshend Elite Rock ll with a Rega RB arm of the same era. I can’t see myself ever wanting to change it.

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@sjw - sorry to hear about that. I have never heard of Regas being more sensitive/ fragile than others - rather the opposite.

@Pete_the_painter - I’d still vote for a non-new turntable - just listen before you buy. Talk to a few dealers…

Apart from VFM today, the advantage is future options. If you find you can’t get used to pops and clicks, and want to forget the whole thing, you can probably sell (say) an old LP12 for what you’ll pay for one, so no loss. That won’t be true of a new Rega or Projekt.

Conversely, if the experiment works and you get back into vinyl, you will have a decent turntable on an otherwise great hi-fi. At that point, the fact that you have a great streaming source (same as me) and a merely decent turntable will be noticeable. Buying a new RP3 or Projekt or even (say) a Roksan Attessa now might then become an annoyance that needs wholesale replacement, while getting an (say) old LP12, Michell Gyrodek/ Orbe or whatever up to the standard of your digital source can be doe gradually (e.g. when no-one is looking).

If an older Linn/ Michell/ Roksan is just too much risk/bother, Rega do look a strong choice here. An RP6 with a good MC will thrash an RP3 of course, but RP3s are great value.

@sjw does raise one important point. If you get back LPs from the 80s, they will sound a whole lot better after being cleaned. If have a mate with a cleaning machine, borrow it. If not, you may well find someone in Sydney offers this as service - my hi-fi shop in London does (or did) for example. There’s no point spending AUD40K on an LP12 and then playing an LP coated with a fine layer of (let’s be generous) mud.

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I agree. A turntable can last a lifetime, with some little maintenance. So for 2k, if it was me, I would go for a second hand Rega RP8, Apheta 2 and Rega Aria trio . Maybe 3k…but the Ndx2 /Xpsdr would be often challenged and sometimes surpassed.

Sorry I was saying the Rega was sensitive to hum as the arm moved to the centre. I don’t think the motor is shielded. On another tt with a ground screw I could connect it to the phono preamp and eliminate any other hum.
Apparently Rega uses the shielding of the lead to earth a TT. If that’s the case why’s there a ground on their own phono stages…
I don’t think I said they were delicate but was trying to say that the amps and speakers we use 40(!) Years ago were cheaper and less sensitive. Cheers

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@frenchrooster - thanks, but it’s hard to find that for AUD2000 - exchange rate…

@sjw - understood. I have not heard of any Rega users having this issue (others may want to comment), but you are right that I have heard many Regas but have not actually owned one since the early 90s.

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The only time my Rega has hummed was when I’ve placed it too close to a speaker.

The ground screw is there because their phono stage might be used with other turntables than Rega’s

I had a P3 with several different systems from 1987 to 2020. Then a P8 with Aria into 252, then a P10 with the Aria, and now with a SuperLine.

I never experienced any audible hum. Sure, any TT hums if the volume is cranked to silly levels, and the Rega’s increases as the cartridge gets close to the motor, but in my experience that’s only with the silly volume level and the arm going beyond the run-out groove to the center of the platter.

That said, it’s well known that in some systems they can indeed hum in a practical scenario, and it’s annoying if it happens. However, it’s probably safe to say that Rega would not have been as successful as they have been for 40 years if this was a common issue

I’ve just purchased a Rega P1 not the new matt finish but the previous gloss finished version for a second system it cost a little over £200 and I can’t imagine there is a better budget table available anywhere.

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