Cable burn in

I could not care less what the proposed mechanisms may be.
Tech people in the finish and it is on the forum fall back with. They want the subject explained
to them. This is the Classic wriggle out which i have previously mentioned. if they can not prove it to you they simply Reverse it for you to prove it to them and of course ONLY a piece
of Science will do. So now you are at fault. You can see how ridiculous this is you have a mission that can only fail and it is now all on you! - for mention of it in the first place.
And you better not mention it again cause you can see where you will end up.
They have you all planed out Before you even start the conversation.
I am about to draw comparisons with Monty Pythons Knight so the Last word is for you/them.

WOW!
That really is quite insulting.

Considering that I have NEVER cast any doubt on your ability to hear the effect, NEVER stated that it doesn’t exist, and NEVER asked you for any proof that the effect exists outside of subjective experience; your diatribe against me is quite undeserved.

4 Likes

Review of the Cable cooker, ENJOY THE MUSIC, 2004:

“ Kafton asserts, for example, that giving an interconnect a single day’s burn-in on the CABLE COOKER equals a week or more of continuous system operation. He says that any kind of cable breaks in more thoroughly on a Cooker because of exposure to extreme signal levels and a special waveform that does not occur in normal system operation. The cooker’s burn-in circuit supplies >1 watt for interconnects and 22 watts for speaker and power cabling, while generating a dynamic extended-frequency sweep.

The CABLE COOKER is a highly versatile device. Its universal switching power supply is usable worldwide, with all line voltages from 90 VAC to 260 VAC, and AC frequencies from 47Hz to 63Hz.

The circuitry in the standard version 2.5 Cooker is identical to that of that of the Pro version reviewed here. The Pro version is built for heavy-duty usage, and therefore features upgraded heavier-duty all-metal speaker binding posts; a double-ball-bearing interior cooling fan; and a bridging switch that enables simultaneous break-in of interconnects, speaker cabling and power cabling. This bridging switch is a $30 upgrade option on the standard Cooker.

Cable break-in occurs as current flows through the conductors of wiring components. Dielectric stress from voltage differences between conductors also contributes. It takes many hours of in-system use for wiring components to break in, primarily because audio/video signals from normal program material are so low-level.

Consider an interconnect from pre-amplifier to power amplifier. The maximum signal level for full power output of the average power amplifier is 2 volts peak, and the average signal is much less. Typical input impedance of a power amplifier is 10 kohms at the low end for consumer gear; 47 to 100 kohms is typical for a solid-state amplifier, while several hundred kohms impedance is not unusual for a tube power amplifier.

Taking the best-case values from the above, the maximum current seen is 2 Volts/10k ohms, or 200 micro-amperes. This would not be continuous current, because the voltage value is peak, not rms. One can calculate a “use value” from the above equation multiplied by the total time this current flows. Let’s call that the Current Time Value (CTV).

Playing an interconnect cable in an audio system for one week (168 hours) of continuous use would expose it to the following CTV: 168 hours x 0.0002 amperes = CTV of 0.0336.

The CABLE COOKER produces signal levels far higher than those seen in normal audio/video system use. The Cooker’s sweeping square wave oscillator drives a high-efficiency “H” bridge MOSFET switching circuit. The output signal is a square wave from below 100Hz to above 16 kHz, plus harmonics. Output voltage is 12 volts rms. The measured current flowing through the interconnect is 120 milli-amperes.

Installing an interconnect on the Cooker for one week results in a CTV of 168 hours x 0.12 Amperes = CTV of 20.16. This is a value 600 times greater than under the most ideal audio system conditions. The “stress” on the dielectric is also much higher due to the higher output voltage. Results with the Cooker are typically audible after less than a day.

The same signal also feeds the speaker cable binding posts. The load at the speaker cable inputs draws a continuous 1.88 amperes of current through the wire. With a potential of 12 volts, this is equivalent to a continuous signal level in excess of 22 watts rms. This continuous signal level played through loudspeakers in a home environment would be unbearably loud. Put simply, there is no way for conventional in-system playback burn-in to approach the intensity and efficiency of the Cooker.

Hooking For Cooking
The Cooker’s front panel sports RCA (two sets), BNC, and XLR output and input jacks, plus two sets of five-way speaker binding posts. The binding posts accept spades, bananas, posts or bare wire. There are no specialized connectors such as S-video or 1/4-inch phone jacks, but the wide world of adapters offers solutions for those (and other special) requirements.

RCA-terminated interconnects may be daisy-chained using barrel connectors (a few pair are supplied with every Cooker). XLR-terminated interconnects simply snap together to run in series and directionally. Speaker cable adapters ($50 per pair), each with two sets of five-way binding posts, allow simultaneous break-in of multiple sets of loudspeaker cables.

Each Cooker comes with a pair of reverse-male/female 3-blade/IEC adaptors to connect a power cable for break-in. Banana plugs at the opposite end of each adapter insert into designated speaker binding posts. Power cable break-in occurs on the same high-level circuit used to break in speaker cables. Additional “extension adaptors” ($10) allow multiple power cables to be daisy-chained.

Note: Alan Kafton will henceforth be offering custom Schuko and UK13-style power cable break-in adapters, needed by some overseas customers. Contact him for price and availability.

A special DIN-to-RCA phono adaptor ($50) allows break-In of tone arm wires and phono cables. It utilizes a Cardas 5-pin DIN connector and Cardas RCA plug, a five-foot cable suited for low-level signals, and a Velcro band that wraps around the adaptor and arm to keep everything immobile and safe during break-in.

This capability strikes me as especially useful; given the incredibly low voltages generated by cartridges (especially low output moving coils). Tone arm wire and phono cables are virtually never truly broken in and conditioned by playback. The Cooker’s multiplex output signal is about 2,000 times stronger than that of the average MC cartridge.

There is no practical limit to the number of interconnects, speaker cables and power cables you can burn in at once. There is no degradation or loss of signal strength or integrity, no matter how many cables are connected to the Cooker.

How Much Break-In Time?
Break-in times vary with the gauge and number of conductors and the amount and type of dielectric material. As a rule of thumb for new cable, Alan Kafton suggests 1.5 to 2.5 days for interconnects, 2 to 3.5 days for speaker cables, and 3 to 4 days for power cords. Especially at the beginning, I found periodic listening tests – e.g., at 12-hour to one-day intervals, helped me learn how long different designs take to reach their best sound. It’s easy to tell when a cable has been “overcooked” – the sound becomes comparatively dull, “bleached,” and the soundstage tends to shrink. Fortunately, this condition typically passes after the cables are re-installed and played in the system for several hours.

Alan Kafton asserts that cable break-in is long-term but not permanent. He suggests that cabling (especially in the dielectric materials) benefits from a periodic “recharge” of 12 to 24 hours every few months. He says many Cooker owners do this chore every 3 or 4 months. This of course makes the Cooker a better long-term value.”

Your reply to me above

1 Like

The trouble is that in so doing your generalised accusations without acknowledging you are only talking about some not all of a group (“Technical people” covers a wide range of people) may be incorrect at best and can be insulting to people who those who get the impression you are aiming comments at them.

Instead of branding everyone who may fit a wide descriptive term, it would be best if you were specific, naming people or responding directly to posts, or being much more specific in your choice of group term so as not to include others.

Yes interesting, though whilst psychology is a subject in its own right different from cable burn-in, psychology well may be of significance to the subject in hand. As for how complex or difficult the subject may be imagined by people it depends on the individual, but that is irrelevant. Regardless, you still haven’t answered the question, which still stands: Do you consider yourself immune to psychological or physiological effects that could affect the sound as you hear or perceive it?

1 Like

From that view and the description they give on the website, that is a trivial electronic circuit requiring little or no development effort or research in planning; even the PSU smoothing / reservoir capacitor seems to have been an after thought (rookie error)!

The most sophisticated element seems to be the use of button head screws rather than cap heads!

Yes, in reply to you saying “There’s absolutely nothing in common between an experience reported by thousands and thousands of people who just share their experience, have no relationships between each other, observe a same phenomenon with so many different cables , inside so many different systems, and thousands of people who need to catch on a belief and share a devotion. You can’t compare”

Doesn’t mean that those who believe in cable burn-in also believe in aliens

1 Like

Costs $879 though in the most recent review from 2010 :slight_smile:
(There are 3 reviews, from 2001, 2004, and 2010. Can’t say to have heard from any of these websites and they all look rather amateurish FWIW. The review I read is largely a copy of the Cablecooker statements and adds the “info” that they heard the effect)

This suggests that “burn-in” carries on beyond tge point where sound is optimum. That means it will happen during music playing. Which in turn means that those cables that maybe didn’t sound so good, but someone kept in use anyway because they believed what they read about burn-in making things fine in a few weeks, will then cease to sound so good, and re-shaking of cables will be needed every few weeks…

N.B I know what you posted wasn’t you speaking, though as you felt it relevant to post it would be interesting to know your thoughts regarding “overcooking”.

And thinking from a different angle, if all this is true, shouldn’t manufacturers at least of expensive “audiophile” cables, burn them in before sale, taking them to overcooked, so that the shaking of packaging, transport and installation makes them fully optimised upon first install. Even if the overcooking is not true, shouldn’t manufacturers of expensive cables burn them in before sale? If someone spends £1000s on cables aren’t they entitled at least to that? Of course, if cables don’t change and it is psychological there manufacturers may still feel a need to to suggest burning in to customers to overcome any initial dissatisfaction, with of course no need to burn in themselves to prepare the cables for use.

If we can agree that the signal (irrespective if it is analog or digital) travels through the metallic wire conductors in the cable, one thing to check is the structure and properties of said metallic wires.

Then let’s please remember the study of metal structure and properties is the field of metallurgy.

At the moment, it all looks like measuring the intelligence of a person with a meter tape.

1 Like

It would be great to buy a burned in cable already. At least 30/50 hours which regularly, in my experience at least, is a minimum to discover the real sound characteristics of that cable.
As for overcooking, it’s perhaps a phenomenon different from a very long burn in by listening. Can’t say.
Nordost has the Vidar for example. Nordost is a very serious and recognised and respectful company. I really doubt they would produce a snake oil machine, just to make more profits.
It’s always possible, but I doubt it can be the case.

It is nothing to do with intelligence.

I thought he just meant using inappropriate measurements for the thing one would like the measure (not that the burn-in question had anything to do with intelligence). Though I am not sure if metallurgy has anything to say that helps here.

Possibly - I took it to mean that lack of intelligence was being ascribed to those who believed in cable burn-in - whatever, I don’t think anyone has mentioned intelligence.

Probably best if I don’t speak for @Rafael, but I just read it as an analogy and thought it was a funny one. Though in this thread one must tread carefully when using analogies :slight_smile:

1 Like

I see what you mean.

Re: Nordost not providing pre-burned-in cables, there is only one logical explanation for that.

If it only took 30-50 hours to bring out the ‘real characteristics’ of the cable, then ofcourse they would do this as a service. When as a company you charge 1000,- or more for a cable this would be a small service to provide, you want customers to have an optimal experience right out of the box. It would also minimize the amount of cables that would be sent back due to suboptimal performance caused by a lack of burn-in.

The only logical explanation why Nordost isn’t providing this service, is because they know it doesn’t work like that.

2 Likes

It was an image, a metaphor.

1 Like

Over 500 posts on this thread and this one for me is the best

2 Likes

It costs to do that. I saw recently on some cables site that they offer that kind of service, but don’t remember which brand. Maybe Audience….but not sure.