The first part of your Question i dont know specificly who continues to engages continuously
in the way i outline but it is a Definite general trend so i am treating it as such, i repeat those that do it will know who they are and vice versa. And it is a practice that NEEDS TO STOP!
The second part PSYC I fear any subjective discussion of it would be destroyed by the Techs
as unscientific! better just keep to Naim equipment matters.
Never said person was me! Disagree with me is no concern what so ever.
BURN IN
R E A L I T Y C H E C K
I am amazed at the amount of time and input that has been given to this subject by both sides.
This is probably the most Insignificant thing in the whole of HI FI given its fleeting nature.
There is a smoothing of the mid and HF and if you dont have a Multi Meter that can measure
Quarks or what ever and you have not noticed it well it has happened anyway.
You probably have a nice sound system your unlucky neighbour has a edgy sounding set up
and any improvement is a godsend he probably feels better off now than when he started.
So he heard it and you did not but that is no reason to throw stones at each others windows.
You could write all the same stuff at the atomic level about your Toaster but you put bread
in and it comes out toasted so NUF! said. And that is Exactly how you should approach
Burn in. ( love the play between toast & burn just thought id get in first! )
I have some interest / input into cable burn in devises these are not new, but no time to
contribute. (guess why?)
Perhaps we could consider the hypothesis that given the human nature for every acknowledged variable we need a constant to compensate for it; so, when we are concentrated on the variables of hearing we take the constancy of the gear’s performance for granted, then when we focus on the variables of the gear we assume our hearing is a constant.
Does it make any sense? Because at the end of the day, we are self-f****d either way.
M.
Who is right then? Xanthe, Jtlewis, IB, Leitmotiv? ( about the 1db).
That procedure takes time and money and needs a lot of cable burner machines, so space too. At least IMO.
You can look it up! You appear to love digging out articles on the internet: try Googling “decibel”, “sound level” or “hearing”, perhaps all three together. You will of course need to read a bit, but I’m sure you’ll find it many times over.
I wasn’t suggesting a subjective discussion of psychology – that would probably be best to its own topic – but I was asking a simple direct question as to whether you consider yourself immune to psychological or physiological effects that could affect the sound as you hear or perceive it? Of course you are not obliged to answer, though in the context of your vehement stance against “tech people” such people may read particular meaning into your refusal.
That’s still no reason to insult me in the way you did.
Neither your previous ‘doubling down’ on it nor anything you have written after justifies it either.
If you must have an answer to the bleeding obvious NO one is immune to those effects - preparation is the key.
None of this matters enough to result in the thread’s descent into disharmony. People are not going to change their opinions, this is clear…and they do not need to anyway.
Just enjoy the music, that’s what matters. If you have been using your cables for >100 (or168!!) hours, the debate is moot. Actually, I would hardly call it a debate anyway.
How’s the P10 going FR (I do not mean is it going around and around!)?
This is where measurement and repeatability comes in, if we want to prove something.
Of course, we don’t need to prove all this stuff. And we can’t prove everything - we don’t yet have the ability to measure everything in a way that delivers a confident result.
But we can call manufacturers and individuals out if they put forward spurious theories or explanations. That doesn’t necessarily dismiss their experience of burn in, but it does put their explanation to the test.
I did not mention you…but you full on participated when i had many times clearly stated
my motives so where does that leave me? I can hardly run away after making clear i am
highly motivated by a subject. If you have any disappointment about anything i probably
do too i would apologise better but i cant work out how to do it.
You did not specifically mention me, however you did direct an insulting reply directly to me; but that’s OK I understand now, see below.
Thank you, I understand that English is probably not your first language.
Accepted: again, thank you.
I am sorry but what you are talking about and what i am talking about simply dont meet.
for me their is no actual subject which is the focus. And the only Science i do not accept
is when they say they have no result for it - and so confidently say it did not happen.
Science really doesn’t work that way - for one thing, scientists know full well that you cannot prove a negative; you cannot prove that something does not exist. The fact, for instance, that you have only ever seen white swans does not prove that black swans do not exist.
And I don’t think that anyone is saying that cable burn-in does not exist. All that is being said is that there is no evidence that it does exist as a result of a physical process in the cable, and we know of no convincing explanation for its existence as a result of a physical process in the cable. We do know, however, that the human brain is easily fooled, and that it is possible (though not proven) that burn-in is a result of some psychological effect - expectation bias, perhaps. We also know that we cannot remember reliably how something sounded a few days ago compared with how it sounds today. The experiments that would convince me - and I suspect most of us - would be to have experiments set up where a several burned-in cables and not-burned-in cables are listened to randomly by a reasonably large group of people and see how many can reliably tell which cable was being used when. According to some here they should be able to tell the difference very easily. It would be extremely interesting to put it to the test. Such experiments have been done to investigate the differences between loudspeakers (which very definitely sound different from each other) and the results show psychological effects very strongly. If the speakers are not seen, and are ranked by the listeners you get one result. Then if the speakers are seen by the listeners (and information such as price given to them) then they rank them very differently.
On a Benchmark HPA4 (and headphones) with 256-Step Fully-Balanced Relay Gain Control, 0.5 dB Steps.
And I can feel the difference of one step or 0,5 dB.
Incredible, at my age!
I was thinking the same thing. TT2, Empy and it is really easy to tell. 3db with speakers in a near field system (3.5ft - 4ft triangle) is also very obvious.
PLUG IN CABLE BURNERS
I have not had time to read ANY posts on this subject YET so help rather than criticism please.
I am sure somebody out there would remember the DUO-TEC Cable Enhancer from say 1990s
6 inch box from USA maybe $350 Subject to rave reviews as a Must have item to BURN in your
cables and hear them as you have never heard them before - well the last part was certainly
right! I bought one and if you with care connected it to a Amp input it made a staccato
punchy mid band sound so some thing was going on. I tested one heavy cable and one
light one i think maybe it took 6 or 12 hrs ? and job done. The results were dramatic!
the reasonably good tonal and harmonic qualities of the cable were wiped out! replaced
with a Heavier darker sound devoid of Tonality and Harmonics why people thought this
change was an improvement i do not know. The cables were wrecked and it was permanent
and irreversible - well not quite if you reversed the cable and put it back on the DUO-TEC
for 20 min you got a sound 1/2 way between Original and Burnt in. But any amount of time
on the DUO-TEC say 30 min just started to make the sound bad never better.
Conclusion these gadgets will burn their own sonic signal in to a cable. i would never use
the Free service provided by Future Shop if you buy a cable from them or ANY burn in device from ANYbody it is just to Risky. Some reviewers also steer clear of them preferring
to use music. And do you think the acclaimed DUO-TEC is still around - no it has long disappeared.