Cable burn in

  1. The variability of human hearing, including variability in sensitivity at some or all frequencies caused, for example, by physiological factors/influences, and psychological factors affecting perception of sound.
  2. The ability of other factors unconnected with the cables to affect sound at a listening position, e.g from atmospheric humidity to position of anything in the room, some of which may be negligible, others very noticeable.
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Clearly you have missed some of the endless discussion re ethernet cables, where burn in changes are frequently reported. Some hear it, some don’t, some accept it as a possibility while others say that ‘the science’ means it simply cannot be so. Rather like audio cables really. All part of life’s rich pageant and an obsessive’s paradise.

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Subjectively, maybe. Certainly not objectively in serious applications like medical machines, nuclear reactors, and basically all fields that modern society depends on.

Of course cables do not burn in because of changes in temperature, they burn in because of micro vibration across the molecular structure, due to transmission of signal or external stress.

This change of the molecular structure can be observed by several tools (not only the ears of some people) like crystallography.

Please remember that many cables change their properties with time, like in suspension bridges, because of vibration and stress. We say these cables settle or age, just a question of language.

But it is not a question of language that (as we can see the structure of a cable has changed with a microscope) some people can hear a change in a cable over time.

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But this is all in the audio-related arena. I haven’t heard it in any other sphere of activity.

And the research proving this is - where?

In response to some of the comments about high tech equipment.
I would guess that some devices go through a calibration/ self calibration process each time they are used.
Still the debate: objectivity v subjectivity, ontology v phenomenology, measurements v perceptions…
A reputable manufacturer will surely have used all of these by the time each product comes to market?
FWIIW…I bet priority is given to subjective assessments…‘we need to develop this more, because we want it to sound better’.

Sorry to disagree but there is substantial evidence and literature in medical, nuclear and space about how instruments (including cables) age and this renders observation and data less meaningful with time.

Oh! The concept of calibration appears!

We should start another thread!

Do you prefer it for Naim cables or for suspension bridges?

What I was saying was that in audio there is not more serious research into this than in other fields, as you had asserted.

I am sure that in space, nuclear, and medical fields, with likely high stressed from radiation, temperature, or mechanical, there will be changes in cables. I am less sure that as long as they are working and within spec, these changes render observations less meaningful, so if you can point me to any sources it would be much appreciated. I am not at all sure that there are measurable and effective changes in the benign environment of homes, with no radiation, temperature changes of at most 20 degrees, no mechanical stresses other than gravity. (Edit: though the latter may well have an effect, e.g. on soldering or microphony, I doubt there are measurable effects on the cable material on a molecular or quantum level)

It is a question of budget, we are spending peanuts, in these cables.

Varying electric and electromagnetic fields of the magnitude of which we are talking do not produce significant vibration within conductors (conductors by their very essence collapse electric fields within themselves) or between conductors, even when as closely spaced as in small signal cables.

Indeed mechanical effects (particularly on the solder joints) cannot be ruled out as a source of change.

I’d be really interested in examples where this has been shown for changes in cables due to small signal currents.

Yes, as I have said many times above, I very much see the difficulties in conducting experiments, particularly involving human test subjects, in the audio area.

However, you are now emphasizing my point, that it is in all likelihood not the case that in audio “There is more people experimenting to find differences”

The thread will end up with metacalibration, for sure!

for audio cables. Suspension cables are usually subject to rather more stresses than audio cables, and are rarely used for transmitting sound signals (though I am sure that they transmit lots of sound signals).

Wow… that takes me back!
Had some Vibhuti once from a dear friend not unconnected with hifi. Bless him.

Let’s put the human factor aside.

Let’s prove first that (audio) cables change with time. We can order three-four units of the same cable. Then we analyse the molecular structure at zero, 30, 60 and 120 days of burning-in. If the structure is different, we can conclude that (audio) cables indeed burn-in.

Then we have the more relaxing task of determining if this can be detected by ear.

Yes, of course. So those selling the idea for considerable money (900 euros for the cablecooker, being a very basic device as far as we can tell) should publish evidence.

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I will provide the literature when we agree on the process, so that we arrive to a conclusion.