Peace proposal: jlewis could have written more precisely, “…and , of course, Naim amplifiers react more than most other amps to the electrical properties of 'speaker cables.”, but as a shorthand for a well known fact it was not utterly wrong
Even that is not necessarily true. Many other amps can be made to react equally badly to extreme designs of speaker cable. It’s more that Naim amps will react badly to a wider range of loads (that exhibit less extreme characteristics) than will be the case for many other amps.
The results of serious incompatibility are still the same, and just as bas in either case… instability and eventual (or even ‘effectively immediate’) failure of the amp.
No. That´s wrong. It´s the impedance curve of the xover that influences whether an amplifier is capable of providing enough current to drive the speaker. The lower the impedance gets the higher the current the amplifier needs to provide.
Speaking about measures and relations of what effect you will see by changing a speaker cable. Inductance of a speaker cable is a construct of resistance and capacitance, it´s construction and the dielectric of that cable. Hence those parameters (R, C, dielectric) change only slightly this can be neglected when it comes to a calculation of how and how much current an amp will deliver to the speakers. Both the damping factor of the amplifier and the impedance behavior of the speakers are the significantly larger factors.
I still think that this is just what jlewis meant and there is no real disagreement, but don’t care
I would go for “ …and , of course, Naim amplifiers rely more than most other amps on the lumped electrical properties of the combined speaker cables and speakers to operate optimally.”
OK
No, that is incorrect… the response of the amplifier with its damping factor is the ratio of the amplifier output impedance and load impedance which yes because is complex varies with frequency.
This is not just about real current … we are dealing with reactive loads of real and complex current and voltage… however yes low frequencies tend to be mostly inductive and have little capacitive element.
The load impedance for most domestic Hi-Fi settings (as opposed to industrial sound reinforcement, where speaker cable can be treated more as a transmission line) is considered as lumped with speaker cable and speaker / crossover. Therefore the speaker cable electrical properties react with the performance of the amp.
Now to the extent that this is audible varies on many other matters, and typically the speaker/crossover will be dominant over the speaker cable in domestic/Hi-Fi settings.
Merely a matter of whether the statement is considered implicitly exclusive or not. In the way it was phrased, that was left ambiguous.
I don’t expect to be able to speak for other people, so I’m not going to make any judgement as to what anyone meant.
I merely intended to clear up the remaining ambiguity by providing some bounds to the variable circumstances.
We talk past each other. Both is correct. The load is determined by the impedance behavior of the crossover, not by the cables impedance. Of course cable impedance needs to be counted in as well to this calculation. But it´s the xover that determines the impedance and load behaviour.
Sure…
But to my assertion ‘ My point is ALL amplifiers react to the electrical properties of speaker cables’ you previously stated was incorrect… but it appears we both now agree it is correct… so we are all good.
So, then you agree with what I wrote.
I do…
What am I agreeing to?
I seem to have inadvertently replied to you…
…I can explain this, and don’t mind declaring, in public, that at this moment my blood glucose is 3 mmol/L.
Jelly Babies to the rescue!
If you agree with my suggested revised wording then yes… your original statement wording was in my opinion misleading… and inferred it was a Naim specific thing…
4 is the floor. 5 to drive!
Don’t worry, you replied to the right person, that was just my overactive sense of humour at work.
I do understand the hypoglycaemia though - it can be very disorienting, I know that from personal experience. I hope the jelly babies work their magic and you can resist overdoing it (hyperglycaemia isn’t nice either, and even more damaging).
Thank you for your comments.
Jelly Babies worked! Interesting that you seem to understand the longer lasting effect of the counter-regulatory hormones!
Thread hijack!
J
…maybe I should have made it more explicit that Naim amps are more sensitive in this area.
Indeed, I’m a biologist (former research scientist), I also have 4 conditions on the ‘rare diseases’ list (in the EU and UK defined as less then 1 in 2000 persons affected), so I tend to be aware of some ‘less common’ issues, and have a reasonable understanding of some of the ways in which homeostasis works.
Because we are talking about different point of views. I´m saying that the cable belongs to the xover and speaker and needs to be counted in there. Thus the Xover and speaker design determines the sound, the effect and it´s the impedance behaviour of the xover that´s in focus. The amp only delivers the signal, and does not react directly to any electrical properties of the speaker cable. The amp reacts to the load that shall be driven only. And this complex load is defined by Speaker design including the xover and the cabling attached to it. The cable cannot be viewed singularly, but only in combination with Xover and speaker design.