Totally HH
While I like the MXN10 that doesn’t mean I won’t look to upgrade at some stage, possibly to the ND5XS2, but I’m in no rush to do so
Here’s an idea. Let’s go down to London Road together and compare the Cambridge and Naim head to head, through an ND5 and some ATCs. It could be fun.
3 Likes
A digital source comprises streaming section and DAC. Can be one box. Can be two.
I’ve posted before on various threads about how close an iPad/SMSL PO100Pro is to an NDX2 as a streaming transport (into nDAC via S/PDIF).
So it is relatively easy nowadays to get a competent streaming transport.
I think the real quality of a digital front end comes from the DAC. When using two boxes, the percentage split between streamer/DAC spend should heavily favour the DAC.
naim gen1 devices - the streaming board, for internet services, isn’t strong. An NDX2 was a great improvement into 272 versus internal streaming board. There are many forum members using WiiM/Limetree/Primaire to extend the lives of 272/NDS adding hires and also getting SQ improvement.
If we didn’t have a RPI in the office providing HiRes services to SuperUniti, I would be sorely tempted by a WiiM streamer, based on reviews.
3 Likes
About what.
I’m not suggesting every low cost streamer will sound fantastic. It obviously won’t.
According to Whathifi the MXN10 is better than the Wiim.
Something to consider is low price streamers are usually tested in appropriate low priced systems. The results may not be the same when used in a better/high end system.
Take the NP5 for example. Tested against other budget priced streaming bridges in budget systems it may not perform very well because it sounds flat in comparison to other streamers. It’s not adding anything sonically to the system, it’s just allowing the listener to hear the system. And adding something to a budget system would probably be a good thing.
Stick it in a high end system, not adding anything and allowing the listener to hear the system is a good thing.
1 Like
And there are forum members who have posted that they simply don’t believe a £500 bridge could possibly sonically outperform the NDS streaming board.
I haven’t read the whole thread. But, the title is Cambridge Audio MXN10 - Honestly It Sounds Great!
That’s plain English, it doesn’t suggest the Cambridge is better or as good as Naim.
So, if you compared them, there is a good chance you might conclude that Naim is better, but the Cambridge sounds great.
The NDS is a much better implemented device than the 272. However, same streaming board.
But our experience on the 272/XPSDR was adding an external transport (NDX2) made an all round improvement. For internet based services (Tidal, internet radio etc.) it was a BIG difference. It just sounded more open, detailed and airy. This was using 272 DAC.
So I’m not surprised even NDS owners find improvement.
What is clear from the opinions of posters with high end systems who have compared NDS with ND555 as DAC only is that they find little difference. Which really shows how important the streaming transport is… ND555 has the gen2 board, NDS the gen1.
We might still at some point move from nDAC to NDS as DAC, due to relatively low cost. But in reality, having heard multiple high end DACs we are not in a rush to move. Our 2011 nDAC still stands up well. Not the most detailed, but still up there on how music flows,
3 Likes
I’m probably away to pull the trigger on another NN50….
in doing so, I’ll likely use my EVO150 in the short term as a preamp out for streaming. A bit overkill, but is what it is….
Concerning a new streamer, I’ve a WiiM ultra I can use and as said above, a decent DAC is where it’s at as far as I can tell……
I’ll keep,an eye out probably for a deal,on a Qutest or similar….
WiiM Ultra, Qutest, NN50 a helluva cheapish system..
The Cambridge Streamagic app is nothing compared to the WiiM app… And that’s where streaming starts… within the app…..
Add to that the functions within the WiiM app, room correction (not for me), continuous updates, quite remarkable for such relatively cheap devices……
3 Likes
Well quite. Yes the continued development and mass production of modular techniques, patterns, chipsets and lower power draw has really brought the quality of DACs up and the price points down.. which is fantastic for enthusiasts.. I have been impressed with a few lower cost products over the last 12 months and I bought one, (Chinese designed and made). However there is still a tangible difference between these great products and higher end DACs.. it’s the difference between sounding very good, and kind of disappearing, or better focussing the reconstructed audio sound stage and timbral accuracy … but it is fair to say the diminishing returns ratio has been increased.
Things like EM design, clock stability design and powersupply stability and tuned/optimised analogue componentry in the i2v and output filter stages do not always lend itself well to lower cost mass production techniques and these are some of the areas that make the higher end differences
2 Likes
Out of curiosity and coz I’m away to buy another NN50 to replace my EVO150, I thought I’d try my spare WiiM Ultra B2B with the Node Icon this morning………..
All things being equal, no EQ, all pre amp out set same voltage, etc and I can tell the most marginal of differences…..
If anything, with the latest WiiM updates, etc applied, I think perhaps the WiiM ultra has the edge (for my ears) on the ICON and I love the Icon….
Additionally the WiiM app is the king of apps, especially if you’re a TIDAL user…….
Hmmm.. I’ll still look for a cheap QUTEST as an option, but the quality of sound from all these devices remains fantastic at the price…
3 Likes
Well the streaming transport is important, but not so much as the streamer itself, with or without its DAC. The streaming transport deals with the external network interfacing and some specific protocol interoperability, and as we know Naim use a third party module for thisr streaming transport. But the EM design, power supply design, ground planing, clock stability, the signal processing of the streamer itself are all really important and make the key difference for whether the streamer is providing digital or analogue audio.
Putting a streamer providing digital audio in front of the NDS acting as DAC (effectively disabling its streamer) decouples these streaming aspects from the NDS.. and it sounds better. In my experience separating the DAC from the streamer often leads to improved results, I suspect through better EM seperation, lower ground plane and powersupply stability, noise and decoupling as well as two stages of clocking.
2 Likes
We have never regretted doing this.
Currently sounds fantastic, and gives us options in the future.
2 Likes
It is not that problems occur, it is how they are dealt with that often matters to many fair minded consumers
3 Likes
I was given to understand that the streaming transport is quite noisy and that it should be kept separate from the DAC. That is why I have opted for separates.
Naim streamer ND5XS2
That’s almost my setup, but with WiiM Pro plus rather than Ultra. Sounds great and the Qutest is a big upgrade on the WiiM used on its own. I previously used an Atom and this little setup is a box grade up for similar money.
Roger
5 Likes
That’s really interesting thanks… I’ve been offered a deal,on a Qutest so will perhaps go,for it once I shift some stuff around and get some stuff sold !
it can be - certainly when switching ethernet analogue voltages and its local processor. however Naim typically put the streaming transport module in its own cage on the higher end products - so its decoupled from an EM perspective from the steamer core itself and the DAC module.
Naim also use LVDS between the transport module and the streamer so as to reduce radiated noise in the connectivity from module.
However there is also a benefit in separating the DAC from the streamer itself - for reasons outlined above - hence why a separate DAC from the streamer in digital audio mode can perform preferentially.
1 Like
I am among those. But didn’t say it’s impossible.
Anyway I choosed to go with Lumin U2 mini next.
1 Like