I’m also curious as to why you suggested an olive NAP250 specifically?
Obviously “big money” is subjective but that’s what you wrote, hence Olive NAP250 to keep it down.
By all means classic HC and classic NAP250 (all black, with green illuminated logo on central panel of tryptych facia) if you are more flush.
Never having owned a NAP250 I will leave it here.
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Yep, I too was thinking the OP should consider going Olive.
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Thanks for that @Christopher_M. I have just checked the Nait 5 manual which suggests you can use the integrated+power together either with or without the power supply. I’m sure it would be better with the power supply, but perhaps not essential. I appreciate you saying you don’t have direct experience so I have no expectation of you clarifying further.
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I wouldn’t try using the NAIT 5 with a NAP250 - too much amp and too little pre-amp. Remember that the pre-amp is much the more important half of the pre/power pairing. If funds are tight then consider a shoe box pre-amp (NAC42.5/NAC62/NAC32.5/NAC72) and a HICAP. That would be the bare minimum of pre-amp I would partner with a NAP250.
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It’s a long time since I owned a Nait 5. Please would someone like @james_n or @Richard.Dane confirm to @hughie that his Nait 5 and NAP250 won’t work as a two box solution because of the lack of preamp power supply in the NAP.
(I don’t want it on my head if he buys a NAP250 and finds no sound!)
Either that, or correct me if I’m wrong.
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The NAIT 5 would need a Flatcap power supply to work with a NAP250, as the 250 has no internal pre-amp supply.
As I say above, a NAP250 and a NAIT5 don’t make a great pairing. Much better to trade for a more suitable pre-amp and PS.
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OK thanks @Christopher_M and @Richard.Dane, i’ve done some further research myself and realise this is the case now. I also take note of Richard’s comment regarding the essential mismatch between the Nait and the 250, but my slight counter would be that my main interest is boosting the power to achieve very substantial reserves over what I currently have. I’m not certain the integrated options such as the XS3 do this sufficiently given the speakers’ demands. I know changing the speakers is the logical route… but I would love to have the opportunity to hear them achive their real potential; it’s an itch that needs a good scratch.
Right, I think I’m slowly beginning to understand - apologies to those already basted in years of Naim arcanery… If I understand correctly, there seem a couple of routes I might take if I want to increase power, minimise box count, and stay with Naim. One, exchange my Nait for a Supernait. Two, go for the biggest hitting power amp capable of powering the Nait in preamp mode, without a separate power supply, and I think that is the NAP180. The Supernait does appear to provide the bigger hit in terms of power increase, but a used 180 would cost significantly less and would still allow for the addition of a better preamp and separate power supply later should funds and household tolerance of audio clutter allow. Can anyone give insight as to the possible likely pros and cons of these two options, and/or the variations in character of the resulting systems?
There’s been a huge amount written on this here since the Supernait’s introduction in, I think, 2008, so well worth using the search function.
For what it’s worth, though Nait is an abbreviation of Naim integrated, I have often considered it an abbreviation of Naim introduction. My plan was always to get beyond the introductory product when I could, and head for a pre-power.
(Many here on the forum disagree.)
Chris
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I would trade your NAIT 5 for something like a NAC72/NAP180 in good fettle (i.e. serviced) or else consider a Supernait. Alternatively you could just try a NAIT 5i - this was much more powerful than the NAIT 5, and could drive difficult speakers much more easily (IIRC it was measured at a peak of 500W into a 1ohm load) and see how you get on. At the very least this may well give you more budget to up the front end, which is never a bad idea in my book.
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Dear Hughie,
My posts can be found on this forum somewhere (Mitch from Oz). I ruminated for ages about upgrading my system or the speakers. After crunching the numbers mathematically after purchasing the XS2, as I already owned the SL6Si speakers, I then realised I should have purchased an SN2 instead of an XS2 at the time for the best power load matching.
Anything further up the table in the way of separate amplifiers will bring further audio improvements, though I can not say, as I did not go this way.
I went down the track of having the poly woofers replaced with woven Kevlar and the dome tweeters replaced with ribbon tweeters, which was an amazing sound difference in hearing things on CDs and LPs all anew again. Distant faint rimshots, cymbal taps in the background, as well as background audio between band members (Dire Straits) and others. Please do not ask me which albums, as I will have to go through all my LPs and CDs and have to listen to them, which takes away the enjoyment of the listening journey for me.
If you have an MM turntable, go to the SN3. I have been happy with my XS2 all these years and listen at a quite volume that my wife appreciates these days.
Mitch from Regional Oz 62 yr 62-year-old ears.
I am now obtaining an ear for Jazz, very early days from years of shift work and no time to listen.
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Thanks @Gigantor, that’s a useful data point. It sounds like the XS2 has satisfied you well, though obviously an SN3 would be just that much better. Given the difference in cost though, I might have to settle for an XSx, or go the pre/power route which does have the added benefit of greater future upgradeability, especially if I use my existing NAIT as a pre initially. Your comments re the speaker upgrades are interesting. Mine are virtually mint (a couple of minor marks on the case but the drivers look new) and I would prefer to keep them original. Were the changes you had made a recommendation by others based on an engineered/modelled design, or more of an inspired experiment? I hope that doesn’t sound patronising, it isn’t meant to be!!
Dear Hughie,
Your reply is not patronising in any way. I kept going back to my NAIM dealer for better bass response, and all his speaker recommendations could never fit my budget. I live in regional Victoria, Australia, and he recommended a company in Queensland, 2,000 kilometres away, that recoils speakers and redesigns crossovers. It was a bit of a step of faith, and I am truly glad I took the step for about $1,000 AUD at the time (please check original post), I think, plus postage and insurance both ways. I think insurance was half the cost, as I valued my speakers so highly. Mine were mint as well, had them since new.
As it turned out, due to their age, all the foam inner soundproofing/wadding had to be replaced as it had deteriorated to the point of being useless, as you may find yours has too.
The SPL rating remained the same, though I could hear so much more. I do not know if the bass is any better, maybe tighter. Though the recommended speaker placement is no longer to be toed in, though to be placed flat against the rear wall. Soundstage is wonderful. The company’s name on The Gold Coast, Queensland and in Melbourne is called Total Recoil Speaker Repairs. Possibly, there may be somebody in the UK or the EU who may perform the same for you?
Technology has changed over the last 40 years, and I thought it was time for an affordable upgrade for me.
I wish you well on your journey. If you have an MM turntable, go for the SN3; if not, go for the SN2. If only for the headroom. The XS2 and XS3 are at their limits ( a little under, actually, from memory it’s 2 dB, though it could be most likely incorrect ) for these speakers and do a handsome job.
Warm regards,
Mitch in Regional Oz.
Just an update for anyone still listening (I suspect not many!). It was clear from everyone’s inputs that the most appropriate upgrade would be a Supernait 2/3. It seemed unlikely that other options would really deliver the oomph my speakers demand. However, both SN2 and SN3 are beyond a price I am willing to pay at this point in time.
So I’m afraid I’ve deserted the Naim camp and purchased a VGC Musical Fidelity SN2 for barely 20% of the price of even an SN2, but offering similar output power. I’ll hopefully get most of my outlay back by selling my used Nait 5.
Is it as good as a Supernait? Probably not, but it has certainly shaken the dust off the Celestions. Much more detail and clarity, possibly a less refined sound, but discovered the speakers do do bass. I think I can get used to it.
It will also comfortably play louder than I would ever wish to go.
Downsides? It’s a big old box, and though solid enough, it’s not built like the Naim. My partner isn’t happy with its size (and it all sounds the same to her anyway) but we will shortly be moving house, and re-siting everything will allow us to fit it in comfortably. It does mean we have 2 remote handsets which I agree is a pain. And whereas the Nait 5 offered input gain adjustment, the MF doesn’t so we have to be careful switching between sources - but I understand Naim no longer incorporates this very useful feature anyway.
So, few regrets. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, comments and advice in any case.
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