Another thing to bare in mind.
CGI need a higher bitrate than non CGI.
1 Like
@DiggyGun, if you have a tablet or phone such as an iPad or iPhone you can just got to https://www.speedtest.net and that will tell you what your bandwidth is. FWIW, on Qobuz CD quality is roughly 1.4 Mbps, and super-mega fancy āhi-resā a little over 9 Mbpsā¦and the rest in between.
FWIW my iPhone just said I have a little over 200 Mbps of download and 30 Mbps of upload. Hence in my case, I could listen to 140 CDs simulataneously over not very fancy wifi (I guess this may come in handy for an obscure Flaming Lips album). This shows what is possible.
Thanks @MartinM for the guidance. Is Bandwidth essentially the speed?
We are on full fibre here and our speeds are roughly the same for both WiFi and Ethernet, around 200Mbs download and 180Mbs upload.
The TV is in direct view of the Router and about 10 feet from it, which is probably why the results are similar. There are 21 items connected to the router with six of them on Ethernet.
@DiggyGun, no problem. Yes, they are casually used as synonyms. Seems like you have lots of bandwidth so little to worry about. In my case, I just plugged the KDS into my router (an old Apple device) and got on with life. Hence, Iād probably tend to recommend you just enjoy diving into Qobuz.
1 Like
@MartinM. Thanks for confirming this. Makes it easier to understand, @garyi was making it sound more complex.
Iāve also been looking up why Ethernet is better than Wi-Fi, so very interesting.
Notwithstanding this, I have found the change to the EE8 switch and better cables has helped the sound quality.
I know that I will be told that itās just 0s and 1s, but weāve found that there is a difference based on listening to the music. Also, there are numerous positive reviews in respected Hi-Fi magazines, so they canāt be all wrong either.
Iām sure this debate will continue long after this thread has bit the dust.
1 Like
I try not to sound complicated, but a speed test equally is telling you very little. A number of ISPs have been known to up their game when speed test sites are loaded 
1 Like
Itās good enough for this though.
In fact Netflix have their own web based throughput test site at fast.com, generally more realistic than speedtest.
1 Like
Itās āFastā that I use. My IT chap recommended years ago and been using it ever since.
Fast ethernet is 100MB/s which will equate to around 10MB/s throughput on a network. FWIW almost all streaming devices, such as AppleTV, etc tend to be fast ethernet. I think all of naim equipment is, but the demands on music only is not so harsh.
Gigabit ethernet took over from it and is ten times faster and equoates to around 100MB/s on the throughput. As things move on we now have 2.5gb ethernet (2.5 gigabit) and 10gig and even 40gig but not in the average house so much I would imagine. For these speeds to negotiate properly everything in the chain has to be compatible. For the really fast stuff you need cat6-7 cables even.
I find it a fascinating area. However in my experience I have not heard any difference between kit or ethernet cables. I consider myself lucky. I have not upgraded from gigabit there is no need in my use case. Backups etc can take place over night and we just arnt transferring big stuff to warrant faster.
1 Like
I am on 1 gig down but I really wish there was an affordable 2 way for that, alas no!
1 Like
The wired Ethernet on current streamers (probably same on Muso) is 100 Mb/s PHY, the WiFi radio can connect at higher speeds, my NDX2 typically is connected over Wi-Fi at around 560 Mb/s for example.
If itās just listening to music streamed either locally or from the Internet, simplicity is usually preferable.
At least start simple and experiment incrementally, sometimes changes bring benefits that can be an entirely personal reward, the challenge being that the technically minded seek to quantify everything in terms of absolutes or based on measurable and repeatable points of reference.
In some cases that just ends in frustration, if you make a change and enjoy the benefits, youāve spent your money and to you, reaped the rewards.
Iām certainly not an advocate of sticking costly power supplies on routers or switches or magic dongles that hang out one of the free Ethernet ports in the pursuit of somehow whisking away all the ānoiseā and other junk commonly referred to here and elsewhere.
Using half decent enterprise grade equipment and setting up the network properly shouldnāt involve spending lots of money and the results will usually be sufficient for the capabilities of the end points, like streamers, which themselves have limits, even the really nice expensive ones.
1 Like
Ethernet operates at either 10 / 100 / 1000 / or higher Mbps ā¦ depending on compatibility of network interfaces and to some extent cablingā¦ though Cat5e supports upto 1000 Mbps at 100 metres.
Wifi has a range of variable bands and is adaptive in throughput depending on condition/environment, wireless interfaces and protocols used.
Although as stated above services like Netflix use adaptive video compression to suit bandwidth, the. changes are quite marked and not subtle.
If you noticed a subtle improvement in colours and fidelity then that does point to removing a source of electrical noiseā¦ which could have been a poor wifi implementation in the TV or congested WLAN where the TV wifi module was having to work hard.
In some sensitive environments wifi can be chosen over Ethernet to REDUCE electrical noiseā¦ so one shouldnāt assume Ethernet is always better here.
Increasingly commercially Ethernet is used for fixed infrastructure and equipment rooms, with wifi used for everything elseā¦. Domestic environments perhaps are a little behind the curveā¦ but with 803.11ax being increasingly supported I see this trend accelerating,
4 Likes
The small green power supply is a typical unit from a consumer grade piece of networking gear
The DC4 is the replacement. The difference is night and day, perfectly in line the relative values in terms of sound quality. You want $7 sound, use a $7 power supply.
4 Likes
It was already stated above that video streaming bandwidth is adaptive (= streaming service ātogglesā between streams in various quality depending on bandwith) but Tidal doesnāt do this as far as I know. Spotify does have something similar (they have an āautomaticā quality setting).
With Tidal stream needing barely 1 Mbps this chart would look the same on Wifi. Iām now listening to a 192/24 FLAC which is using between 5-7 Mbps. At this level some dropouts might possibly start occuring in some Wifi settings or in case of a significantly underpowered network.
1 Like
I am not sure what you are telling me, we are saying the same thing.
1 Like
Itās easy to point to a single component in a very complex chain of wired connections and make a somewhat finite statement to the fact that going from one extreme to another to make a point, proves the costly alternative is the right choice and all others are rendered null and void.
You always have to think of the system as a whole and the synergies between interconnected components, if someone has invested in expensive and very sensitive equipment there is an arguement for investing in a higher quality power source but it should be reflective of the system as a whole.
It is a valid point that devices targgetted for residential use, particularly data networking components, are built to a price point for the mass market and for average use cases.
Every home environment is different based on multiple factors not least mains electricty supply so equipment manufacturers have to design those products to be compliant to environmental regulations and to meet the needs of the mass market.
Aftermarket AC to DC power supplies can in some instances bring tangible benefits but those benefits will be variable based on the environment and system they are incorporated in to.
Enterprise equipment is typically specified to meet more stringent regulations and to be able to operate in more challenging environments where extremes of temperature, humidity or RF interference are common place, as such they will by design be more robust when used in a less challenging environment like your home and provide overall gains to the system as a whole whilst not being particularly expensive to add especially when bought used.
Products specifically targetted at the HiFi enthusiast will more likely than not employ the same design methodology and component sourcing as that employed for a product designed for enterprise or industrial use, theyāll just look nicer and come at a price premium accordingly.
It pays to do your research in general as often a meaningful gain can be found when using products designed to higher component specification that are already readily available from what is targetted for enterprise use. Itās historically been a motivation for some using switches from Cisco Systems as one example.
Now HiFi equipment manufacturers have got in to that market theyāre often just changing the mechanics of existing designs and labelling them as Audiophile at a price premium accordingly.
3 Likes