Yes it does but i thought it was just about dac’s
As for messy, the dCS looks quality as it is, even if you add all 3 boxes. The dave, plus a streamer that won’t match, then a mscalser that won’t match the other 2, then you might want a power supply. Well that lot certainly looks a right mess, let alone all the cable mess.
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This reminds me of a thread in this forum where there are some people cascading multiple network switches to a streamer for some reason, and this would make thing even much messier 
This guy can’t be trusted. Each time he reviewed a new dac, each time the new one was better vs the older. First was the Dave, then Nagra, then Mola Mola, then Weiss, then Lina.
He just pushes new products in the front.
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Heresy! 
I know, we’re happy with nDAC sound.
But there’s an itch to scratch.
It might be like 300 series demo - we might decide to stay where we are……
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Well……. I’ve decided to “risk it” and put a deposit down for a Chord Ultima Pre 3.
Won’t get delivery for another 4-5 weeks, as I wanted black, and that’s not a popular colour apparently in my part of the world. So it’s coming ex. Chord UK.
I did get a Innuos Phoenix USB yesterday to get me by until the New Year.
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I kinda like the chord way of doing things… I have no problems with it
I think I know where you are at:
I absolutely loved the Naim DAC / 555PS (non DR) sound - really did - but had a nagging doubt that fine details in orchestral and choral music as well as air was not not right or suppressed… but boy on most genres it rocked.
I then discovered the Hugo Mk1 - boy that was a game changer - it gave me that insight and inner texture details and stereo field awareness I had been missing out on. (I wrote quite a bit about this in terms of musical recordings on the Naim forum at the time.) However the Hugo mk1 was a bit smoothed off at the extremes - but I like it. The bass / percussive punch however was noticeably less than the nDAC/555PS - but I was prepared to live with that.
I listened to other DACs - and a brace from Naim, the NDS and the ND555, and good though they were - especially the ND555 - they didn’t give me that inner insight in a way I enjoyed - what I called the ‘Mandelbrot effect’ - ie you could listen and peer into the recording in an enjoyable way - its was more about the effect effect - rather than hearing a how bass line was recorded and compressed which is what I like.
I did later listen to the DAVE - now this was interesting, it gave me that inner Mandelbrot effect as well as the bass punch and drive of the nDAC - it was initially very impressive - but I found a little tiresome after a while… and I returned the loan. I tried it again later - it was the same - but then I was getting in magnetic planar headphones - and I could hear what DAVE was doing and it was tiresome at all - it was pretty much magic on certain recordings. The Johnny Cash prison recordings were just sensational.
So it then dawned on me I had balanced my system and interconnects - and speaker positioning to slightly compensate for the Hugo mk1 softness - so I removed that and the DAVE then came more alive and natural into my main system… though with my ATCs it could still sound a little bright on very poor recordings/productions… but they are a minority… and is possibly more about the ATCs - as that was not noticeable on my Empyreans. DAVE gave me more of what I was after so I bought it.
So in ordering of increasing resolution and ultimate enjoyment across genres; although all three are outstanding in their way - I would say:
nDAC/555PS (nonDR) : best on slightly leaner speakers - can play well on analytical speakers because of its ‘organic’ sound - I think this is the nonDR 555PS bit…
Hugo mk1: more smoothed and insightful sound but perhaps not as extended - quite easy matching - but prefers a slightly warmer speaker with a bit of sparkle.
DAVE: Wide bandwidth and dynamic - careful speaker and system matching required - prefers a smoothed but extended top end speaker with not overly forward mid response.
My two pennies worth.
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Thank you for that excellent insight.
We’re in no rush, but 2024 isn’t far away!
Your comments on speaker matching are particularly interesting.
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Very interesting read, thank you Simon. I’m keeping an eye out for a non-dr 555PS but have been wondering about other options so this was very helpful.
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Phoenix USB is a surprisingly good upgrade to the already excellent Zenith MK3. I also use Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB cables… the only one that worked for me after trying a myriad of others. Had to keep the lengths short though as they aren’t cheap!
I’d almost say the pheonix USB is a must with the zenith. It’s turns a good device into a great device and not for daft money too
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That’s useful. I do not have the privilege of trying a lot of USB cables but have the Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB between the DAC and streamer. It sounds slightly better than the Tellurium Q Ultra Silver USB which it replaced but this was in the old system. I haven’t compared the WW and Tellurium USB cables in the new system with upgraded components though.
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From Sean’s website:
ARC6 is an upgraded version of the DC4 PSU, and involves replacing the standard rectifier-capacitor modules with new and improved ARC6 modules. These use active rectification, over 198,000uF of reservoir capacitance (five times that of the RECAP module) and a high-current choke to eliminate any residual noise before it feeds into the regulator modules. We also now offer upgrades of the DC wiring - the standard wire is 18AWG Neotech OCC wire, you can also have Mundorf’s excellent silver-gold hybrid wire fitted in either 18AWG or 15AWG sizes. The 15AWG option allows for a lower supply impedance. We can make the umbilical cable for the DAVE any length desired, we do suggest a shorter cable is better for performance and there is no disadvantage to having the DAVE sat directly on top of the DC4 case.
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I do find these interesting, as when I spoke to Rob Watts about the design and test of DAVE, with their (Chord Electronics) top measurement equipment they could not detect any power supply induced noise in the ground plane , and indeed the high speed power supply inbuilt is an intrinsic part of the design including its source impedance.
I am not suggesting changing the power supply, not least the smoothing capacitor types does not change the audio balance of the DAC - but you are changing it from how it was intended. I would have thought it was better to get a DAC that you preferred the sound of as designed rather than changing parts of it - unless you really like cannibalising and/or modyfying third party products… but you are closing off the possibility of getting it repaired or re selling should you need/want to in the future.
BTW all rectification is active… whether it be via semiconductor or thermionic valve.
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'It does have a leaner sound to it, and it can sound clinical." That so matched my experience at the Dublin show!
I’m still wondering if the presentation by other DACs is fuzzy and vague in comparison OR are other DACs more musical.
It sounds anything but lean in my system! Much more weight that my TT2 had. Perhaps, as with anything, it depends upon synergy with the rest of the system. My preamp and amp are both chord so you would expect them to play nicely together I suppose
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Hi Paul,
I recommend that you make the time to audition a few decent dacs/streamers for yourself. Only then will you be able to make up your own mind. Some of Dunc’s more recent posts may be interpreted as being somewhat unsubtle Chord bashing by someone who has committed to DCS.
Having heard comparable Naim, Chord, MSB and DCS streamers & dacs, I can understand the attractions of each make to different people.
I personally found the Naim ND555 to present music as a more balanced, natural performance than either the Chord DAVE or the DCS Rossini could manage. The latter both had far greater resolution and presented a much larger spacial image of the musicians than the ND555 but somehow the music got lost along the way.
However, adding an M Scaler to DAVE, or the external clock to the Rossini, brought all the music back. All this to these cloth ears. You may hear it differently, so please hear for yourself before you decide.
Best regards, BF
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What
I haven’t been bashing chord, i mentioned that it can sound a certain way, and that has also been mentioned by many other’s.
Plus i hadn’t even heard about dCS let alone listened to one at the time i tried the chord dave. It was when i had my nds on one power supply, so a long time ago now
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