DAC V1 as source

Hi there,

I’m a relatively new Naim user here, recently just got a Naim DAC V1 and thinking to use it as a replacement for my dead Rega DAC (the poor thing just died a week ago). The question is, how do I use it as a source in a fully Naim system, as it has a 4pin DIN at the back like Stageline. Can I use 4 to 5 pin Naim lead like with Stageline? And plug it as a source in a NAC? I know Naim DAC V1 does have a fixed output to bypass a “preamp mode”, would that make 4pin output suitable for source input? Ive found a few similar forum posts, but it wasn’t clearly explained.

Anyway, hope I will be able to use this DAC as Ive already paid a seller and it will arrive soon :smiley:

Any help will be greatly appreciated

I have one fed by a WiiM streamer, feeds straight into my amplifier either Din or phono. Works very well

Have you read my post? Ive mentioned using it as source (manes plugged into another preamp) not into power amp directly : )

Set the DAC-V1 to “Fixed Output”. From the manual:

If your DAC-V1 is to be connected to a further “downstream” preamplifier, the DAC-V1 output volume should be fixed by selecting the Fixed Output option in the Preamp Out setup menu (see Section 5.2.2). If headphones are used with the DAC-V1 while Fixed Output is selected, volume control will be restored while the headphones are plugged-in.

You just need a 4-5pin Din interconnect, but you can use the RCA Phonos.

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I have used the DAC-V1 4 pin DIN out as a source into the pre-amp 5 pin DIN input very successfully. The manual may only show this as the connection to the NAP 100 but I believe there is a pic implying the RCA phono and the DIN carry the same signal. The manual states to not use them concurrently.

All the NAIM info on the DAC-V1 is available here:

I’ve set mine to fixed output, so it operates as a source without using the preamp function; it doesn’t matter whether you use DIN or RCA connectors—it’s all very straightforward.

Thank you :slight_smile: Will order a 4-5 cable as want to keep everything RCA-free

Our DAC-V1 works beautifully, connected via Naim DIN cable into a NAP140.

Best regards, BF

That is my worry actually as Im going to connect to another preamp, a NAC152XS, but I guess it can work as a source just fine as well.

How does it sounds like? Ive seen it’s a BurrBrown chippy inside : ) Does it have PRaT?

The 152XS is a better preamp than the variable volume control in the DAC-V1, so fixed output dac feeding the 152XS should be even better.

Yes, it’s all about emotionally engaging music rather than forensic mining of detail.

I don’t think you need to worry, so enjoy it.

Best regards, BF

I have a DAC V1 (fed by Prisma NP5) connected via DIN4-DIN5 cable to my NAC72 preamp with no problems at all. Set up as Richard describes above to be fixed output. I also temporarily used a RCA to DIN5 cable until I could source the all DIN variant which wasn’t terrible.

Re PRAT, I’d say my system rocks!

If the 152XS has a direct input it could be worth experimenting as to whether you prefer using the DAC V1 in fixed mode as a source or in variable mode as a source/pre-amp.

Paul Rigby interviewed Steve Sells about the design of the DAC V1 and (if allowed) I have copied the section of the interview that covers the design of the volume control below:

For example, the volume control – a Naim design – that uses expensive parts and is based on the Statement system.”

You might think, “Volume? So what? What’s the fuss about?” On the face of it, you’d be right but not too many people are aware that the ultimate sound quality of a pre-amp and even a DAC like the V1 can be made or broken by the volume control area. It’s actually an essential and sensitive area.

Although the V1’s volume control is ‘based’ on the top-of-the-range Naim Statement system, it is not directly copied from it. This example was tweaked, “We cut out one third of the volume circuit,” said Sells.

Why? Budget reasons, basically but although the volume area is restricted to 64db, Sells tweaked the part so that you get the best bits from the volume control, “We fill that volume circuit in, at the bottom, in the digital domain and so you get that really great thing where digital and analogue are working together to give you value for money.”

Hence, for this quality volume control, all the main listening range, down to tape hiss levels, is all done in the analogue domain which relies on the expensive bit of the volume control. To be able to fade the volume down nicely or have really quiet music then Naim starts using digital attenuation in the quiet bits via a DSP (which performs some quick maths on the audio by using 40bit floating bit precision). Hence, when you get down to -100db, you’re looking at 64db of loud analogue and the rest is quiet digital, “On an engineering level,” said Sells, “it makes absolutely sense: its cheaper, smaller and more efficient with the same result.”

Let’s play devil’s advocate for a moment. If budget is a concern and you’re trying to push out the V1 at a reasonably affordable price, for this class of DAC, why not go for a cheaper volume control, why utilise such a high quality volume control in the first place? “We could have cut quality corners but ‘volume’ is one of those incredibly delicate things. There’s some good chips out there but they don’t quite get the sound that we want. We do use, in fact, a National chip on other products that doesn’t have the specifications of other chips but does have a sweet sound but it’s not up to the level that we wanted for the V1.”

Sells doesn’t believe that, for a box that will sit in a ‘mere’ study or a relatively bustling and slightly non-audiophile space such as an office, that employing such high quality components show that Naim may have gone overboard, “You can get into that trap, sure but, for us, we see it as a pre-amp as well so it can be connected to an amp and speakers in a top flight hi-fi. Also, if you are spending all that money on a DAC then you are probably spending a significant amount on other products to connect to it.”

As for the output stage? This is the same output stage that Naim uses in its big, preamplifiers, like the 252 to the 552, “A current feedback single-ended Class A is used in the V1,” said Sells. “It offers low noise for small signals and, when you crank it up, then it only produces a bit of second order distortion but by then it’s so loud the ear isn’t hearing it. It works really nice. When you plug your headphones in, though, we ramp up the single-ended Class A so there’s enough current to run headphones.”

For the record I currently use a DAC V1 as a source/pre-amp into a NAP200/Piega speakers and they work very well together and have not audible noise floor. I have used the DAC in both line and pre-amp mode into an Arcam A28 previously and it worked well in both formats.

Edited: for some reason some parts of the article were duplicated and some parts did not copy across at all. Hopefully the content is now clearer.

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I have edited my post as for some reason part of the information was duplicated and some parts left out.

I learned from a previous discussion that the fixed mode is simply the same volume control but held at that specific ‘fixed’ level i.e. not by passed- is that right?

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This discussion is very déjà vu for me.

FWIW I’ve been using the DAC-V1 as a (digital) pre-amp since 2013. Initially with a NAP100 and currently with a, recently recapped, NAP200 and PMC Twenty5 23i speakers.

I’ve never had the feeling I’m missing anything. :grinning_face:

Dave

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I think I may have started one of those discussions previously​:wink: As I say, I’ve been very pleased with the V1 that I bought last year and it works beautifully with my NAP 200 and the Piegas.

Although the V1 has a 4 pin din output, one of those is a dummy so it does not matter that the NAP sends out a pre-amp power supply.

I do sometimes wonder about getting a 202 as a pre but then I’m going down the slippery slope of power supplies etc and given that the fixed level of the V1 is essentially the same output as the pre-amp I wonder what a 202 can add back in? Ofcourse, it might drive the Nap 200’s input better but I think I would only stop after I’d bought a 202/NapSC/HCDR. I’d prefer to keep it simple.

I will say however that the FCXS really did improve my XS3 so I do know the benefits of a pre-amp PSU.

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Ah, yes, @AlexP, the OP specifically was discussing connecting the V1 to a pre-amp rather than directly to a power amp. In your (and some other posters’s) case, your configuration makes sense for you but in mine and the OP’s we have multiple analogue inputs which necessitate a pre-amp of some kind for switching. I’ve currently chosen the fixed output and use the NAC72 for input switching and volume control (I don’t mind getting off my backside to do this currently :slight_smile:) but I may choose to revert to variable input from the V1 at some point in the future and leave the NAC72 volume control at something close to unity gain (12 o’clock?).

Yes I was aware of what the OP wants to do. My main point was that, if the 152xs allows for a direct/AV type input (e.g. to facilitate integration into a 5.1 system) that bypasses the volume control of the 152xs, then it would be worth experimenting to see whether the OP prefers using the DAC V1 as source only (as they originally suggested) or as source/pre when using it for their digital inputs. If the 152 does not allow direct in then the OP has only one option - to use as a source only at fixed volume. I certainly would not recommend using variable mode and the 152’s volume control at the same time as, when adjusted remotely, they will both change at the same time as they will both use the same remote protocol for volume adjustment.

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@AlexP Apologies I was replying (I thought) to your most recent post re your NAP200 connection. I didn’t clock that you were also the author of the previous useful post quoting the design considerations of the V1 volume control. :smirking_face:

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No problem at all :+1: