Indeed No Quarter. The marked differences were heard when neither the Roon nor the Auralic software had any DSP running, so the music file should have been un-molested in both cases as it entered the M Scaler.
We subsequently tried with Roon DSP switched on and upsampling or upscaling (I don’t understand the difference) to its highest setting (24/192?) and the music again lost its magic and became a lifeless replay of a bunch of notes.
So much for digital is all ones & zeros!
Best regards, BF
Hi BF, very interesting results. How did you connect the Auralic and the dcs to the m-scaler?
I watched this video last night in which Paul McGowan claims that the biggest difference between DACs is in the quality of the analogue output stage.
So every section within a DAC housing is important; and the way they fit together in the box is crucial; and the way they interwork with the previous box and the next box is also crucial. i.e. it’s the whole signal chain.
The streamer section is important to ‘land’ the file and prepare it for the DAC; the DAC is important to convert it to analog; and the analog stage is also very important to get that stream of voltages out to the amp with minimal distortion, but also in a form that is going to sound good when it emerges from the speakers.
Perhaps this is why the 272 is so good as a DAC - not because of its DAC chips, but because it has a superb analog stage…and because it saves the signal from passing through a plug, an interconnect cable, then another plug before ‘preamp’ processing begins…
Stan Curtis wrote an article talking to these sorts of issues a while back in ‘HiFi Critic’, it spoke about how the design of an integrated unit was able to optimise each section of the system to pass it on to the next internal stage, the ‘output’ of a stage was designed to work with the next stage without having to prepare it for sending out to an external box only to send it on to another, each time having to use universal standards. All of this sending out and receiving back requires additional circuitry and connections which can be reduced in an integrated assembly.
I believe that all stages of the streamer system are important, data acquisition, controlled presentation to the DAC, good power management around the DAC and excellent analogue preparation for issue to the amplifier. I suspect that the quality of the analogue stage is in some designs the area where the system is let down. The 272 + PSU is much liked and it is probably in no small part due to the attention to detail in the power management and analogue stages.
Yes - that’s why I’m now planning to get a PSU for my 272.
Hi Bigboy, the Auralic connected to the M Scaler via a Chord Sarum cable.
The DCS Network Bridge connected via an RCA to BNC SPDIF cable, though I can’t remember which one.
The friend who loaned me his dCS NB sold it a week ago, thinking that the difference to his Raspberry Pi was so small as to be nominal.
A week later he has realised his mistake and will be buying another.
wow!
the difference in my system comparing 272’s internal streamer to the dCS NB is night and day - not at all subtle.
My children aged 6, 10 and 12 all had their eyes revolving and they were alternately clapping], laughing, dancing, congraulating me - which they would not do if it was blatantly better
My wife also saw immediately how much better it is.
But then a streamer that’s £3250 new vs a streamer that’s a third of a box that is £3600 new is not at all a straight fight. If the dCS NB wasn’t far better, it would be grossly overpriced.
As it is, it’s a bargain!
Yes Jim, like you I don’t find the differences subtle …but, our ears, our systems and our rooms.
Have you tried Mosaic yet?
Yes, it’s not as good as the Naim app.
I preferred the old dCS app slightly in layout terms.
But it’s a thousand times more stable and reliable than the old dCS app, which crashed a lot.
It does the job of adding favourites to Tidal and searching for and cueing up music in Tidal, which is fine for me.
So it saves me getting Roon, which I see as a source of complexity and extra faff, and a waste of hifi budget, which could otherwise be spent making the system sing even better…
But I’ve noticed them already making a few improvements to Mosaic in response to requests from users online, as far as I can tell…so it will improve and evolve over time, like any such app.
I recently tried a SH dCS Debussy with the NB.
It gave some more detailed information, but the musicality was lost, so it had to go back.
what was wrong Jim? prat, involvement? for myself i will hear the rossini on tuesday, and the linn ds3.
Yes, PRaT was not up to scratch.
But involvement was majorly reduced.
I couldn’t live with it.
My oldest daughter immediately shook her head as soon as she heard it.
All 5 of us loved what the NB did with the 272, and no one liked the Debussy.
But the Debussy was more resolving of the Tidal files.
There were extra details of music revealed.
It’s strange because the Debussy was a £10k award winning DAC.
And the NB is specifically designed to work with it.
But actually the NB works superbly with the 272.
The Debussy sounded worst when it went straight into my power amp, and was significantly better when I sent it via the 272 preamp - but still nowhere near the 272 DAC to my ears (or those of my family).
Hi Jim,
I have read that dCS now do far more listening with their current generation of hardware and as a result are reputedly less detailed but more enjoyable …in one article the author noted:
I have always been impressed by dCS gear. To me though, this latest round has taken on a musicality that is at an even higher level.
That may well be the case.
I’m not by any means trying to make a general case about dCS DACs.
I’m not even trying to make a general case about Debussy DACs.
They may all sound that way, or the one I bought may not be representative of the norm of Debussy DACs.
I cannot comment on anything other than the single DAC I heard in my system - I’ve never heard any other dCS DACs.
I can imagine that there would be people who’d prefer the Debussy to the 272 in my system - e.g. anyone who greatly values resolving power/revealing of detailed musical information above other considerations.
This highlights why one cannot rely on anything except one’s own ears, on one’s own system in one’s own room. I have been lucky and have not been bit by this bug yet, but my next purchase will certainly include a home audition–next week as a matter of fact.
I’m wondering how an ND5xs 2 would sound into a 272 as a streamer…
Can you say what you’re auditioning?
Well, is it a better streaming section on balance?
And even if it was better in some way, there would then be more cables and boxes and expense and electrical complexity involved.
I have just read a real interesting write up about a new product on Headfi, by Ray-Dude…who has done very extensive tests on his digital front end. He says this product is a real game changer, an optical bridge. He actually has been helping the guy who builds it with testing, he receives no kick back for promoting it, he is just a hobbyist trying to get the best possible sound out of his Mscaler/Dave combo.He even uses battery packs to reduce AC or DC entering his system. The write up is on the headfi Mscaler thread.