I’ve been a happy user of CB gear for decades (currently, 32.5/HC/160), and recently bought a Nait 50, which I understand sounds different than both old CB and perhaps newer gear as well (I think it sounds great). I’m not thinking actively about a change, mainly because I think it is just the coolest gear and can’t believe Naim will keep it updated with their servicing program (we’re talking 40+ yo stuff)!
I honestly haven’t heard tons of different brands or types of gear, but if I had to describe CB stuff I would say direct, a bit raw, unpolished, and extremely musical. I used to think it didn’t soundstage well, but the addition of my Whest phono preamp showed me that is definitely not true.
I don’t believe I’ve heard olive amps. I’ve heard newer random gear when demo’ing things like speakers and TTs at my dealer, and my general impression is of greater warmth and romance, refinement, perhaps better detail…but I don’t think I like it better.
I would love to hear thoughts on this, and it also strikes me this has been discussed in detail somewhere and I just missed it.
You will have very different views. Personally i find the old classic ( from 2002) to be the most organic and textured .
Some find the new classic to be the glorious return of the Naim sound. For me it’s a departure from it.
I like the NC, great gear IMO, but so far I think I prefer the OC as you do. I can’t comment about NC being a departure from the Naim sound, unluckily I don’t have such an experience.
I have always loved the Chrome Bumper and Olive sound. To my ears, the later equipment has more “polish” and refinement but at the expense of some of the excitement and “rawness”.
Some people will find the old sound somewhat tiring or fatiguing but I love the “seat of the pants” excitement.
I do also have a new system of NC 333 / 332 / 300/ 250 which while sounding great, does not compare to my mostly Olive 252/Supercap/250’s active system, which to be frank isn’t a surprise.
I do however sometimes wonder if I might audition the NC 250’s in my Olive system…
Interesting to read the views posted on both CB,Olive & Classic. I have a combination of all of the above, olive CDX, olive 102, CB Hicap (84 vintage) with old classic 200 plus old style NAPSC
Never given it much thought about sound signature having been a Naim owner since the early 80’s.
Just appears to all work well together,bad quality CD discs production wise etc are given short shift, exciting music is exciting and subtle music given the glorious treatment that brings moist eyes
Don’t know if I have missed the point but the above combination has been together fully serviced for over 10 years and was purchased due to funding opportunities and upgrades.
Never heard the new Naim gear but very much doubt I have the need pleased that the new range may be attracting new appreciation and discovering new music.
When Naim went from CB to Olive, it involved some manufacture changes - circuit automatic machinery.
For example a Nac 62 and Nait 2 were available both as CB and Olive.
I believe the CB/Olive parts were the same until around 1993 or thereabouts, when Holden & Fisher transformers went bust.
The H&F boxes were my favorites among the early Naim amps.
(Also John Farlowe from Exposure did use H&F transformers in his amplication back then. Some say the circuits were based in cooperation with Julian Vereker.
I’ve even seen a picture of the two in the same room cooperating.)
Naim went with another transformer brand early/mid 90s, which changed the sound signature a bit.
Old classic were a different approach, still the Prat, but more universal for a wider audience.
I’ve been using Olive Naim amps since the very early 90s, still have a couple of boxes left.
Nait 50 was my last Naim purchase.
I think more is made of the differences between the H&F and Nuvotem transformers than actually exists in practice. Bear in mind that when H&F closed down some of the staff went to Nuvotem, and effectively Nuvotem just continued making for Naim what H&F had done previously (with a handful of transformers made by St Ives for products like the HICAP to cover the gap in between).
The biggest change to the transformers was arguably the move to ROHS compliance in the mid 2000s.
p.s. You’ll also find H&F transformers in the earlier Arcam Delta 60 and 90.
When I first read about Julian’s approach of amp design/CBs design (to sound like live music) I don’t really get it – back then I was still a Hi-Fi guy, I don’t hear great nuance of instruments, no 3D soundstage so how could it be live music?
But one day I walked past a guy busking in the square, it sounds great – but why the performance feels familiar? After a while I found the music reminded me of my CB amps – the voice isn’t faithfully resemble the real sound of vocal, but the energy, the rawness……
and after sometime my friends who are musicians told me true music could be ear-bleeding, could be raw, could be noisy – but the drive, the pace, the energy that shows the spirit behind the music/musicians is the most important part of live music.
I think all Naim amps are stick to this direction, but as lifestyle changes, customers aging (ie more HiFi less aggressive), materials supply changes there are always fine adjustments of the sound. I totally agree the Olive is more into the face, old classic is more HiFi but lovely.
(To me Exposure’s vintage amps sound very sweet as well)
Date: May 05, 1999 01:48 AM
Author: julian vereker
Subject: Some ghost
I shouldn’t take this seriously, but since this was a lie that John
Farlowe perpetrated within his company to the point that his employees
believed that this was truly the case, I feel it deserves a short
airing.
When Billy, (latterly John’s friend & employee) left Exposure a couple
of years ago, he turned up at Naim asking a very similar question. I
showed him the Exposure file from our records and let him read it
through - it shows that Exposure was a customer of ours in the late
'70s. ie a long time after the 250 was designed and first on the
market.
I admit I’ve struggled with the Classic range as if trying to sound bigger and deeper but, for me, ending up being a bit of a softer teddy bear (I know organic wool and all that!).
The NC, to me again, was a nice (kind of) return closer to the original CB and Olive spirit. Taking itself less seriously if you like and going for it
.. This is my technical explanation.
I’ve experienced the same switching between an Olive NAP 250 and a much newer black NAP 250 DR. Front end was a Superuniti, now upgraded to an NSC 222. In both cases the Olive NAP 250 delivered a rawer, in-your-face sound, which we love because the system sits in our kitchen/dining/bar area and we often pump it up after a few drinks. The more refined NAP 250 DR works better in our dedicated listening room paired with components from the same range (NDX2, 252, Supercap DR).
I’d like the highlight the importance of hearing these setups as a complete system. It’s easy to get the wrong idea cos the components are not partnered as intended.
Having said that, I agree with the observations in this thread where my own experience overlaps - bolt down vs CB vs olive, although I also owned a Nait 50 for several months.
