I am currently a very happy full 300 series owner, including the 2 power supplies, which I thought were very worthwhile upgrades. It took me a while to tweak my system for the sound signature I prefer, and I am now at a point where the combo of the 350s with the 332/300 and my speakers, in my room, sounds impressive with both analogue and digital sources.
I believe the next step up will come from swapping out the 333 and I want to explore moving to a higher end digital front-end. I would prefer to separate the streamer and DAC duties (so not considering 555). I am looking for a “denser” and fuller presentation from digital without sacrificing much of the Naim PRaT if possible. Not that the 333 is thin, quite the opposite, however I think I can get closer to vinyl/analogue than where I am today with the 333/300. I am based in the US and have done quite a bit of research but unfortunately home demos are not common here. My top contender at the moment is the MPD-8 from Playback Designs and potentially an Antipodes streamer and server. I have heard the MPD-8 once, at a show, and thought the system was very impressive (though there was no Naim amplification involved). I was wondering if anyone on here has any experience pairing Naim with Playback. Also any suggestions of other components that people have experience with are very welcome.
I have no idea what ND555 sounds like, and I’ve never come across Playback Designs, but I suggest if you possibly can get to do so hearing Chord Dave DAC. When I first hear their much lower DAC, Hugo, ompared to the Naim DAC in an ND5XS, I found it brought a real sense of naturalness I’d never heard with digital. Some people described as more analogue-like. Dave is in a different league altogether, a real wow moment for me when I heard it - literally, as my cellust son had gone with me, without a clue as to what we were auditioning, and with Dave we were barely into the second bar of the first piece of music when he uttered a “wow!” Under his breath but just audible to me next to him, echoing my own reaction. Hard to describe what it was - people go on about a variety of things, but the primary was a sense of absolute clarity into the music.
To feed it a variety of possibilities exist, from Innuos, Melco, Wiim, Naim Core, etc (all using the rendered output via , variously, SPDIF, USB or Optical (claimed to be best for sound quality),. I use a Mac Mini (deadcated, headless (no screen or keybard) running Audirvana. Some people use a Chord MScaler between transport and Dave, which may or may not be beneficial, possibly depending on the transport.
As for difficulty demoing where you are, for the cost of something high end it surely would be worth a short break trip to somewhere that you can fit in a number of auditions, even if to a different continent.
I can’t comment on the digital option you suggest nor have I heard any NC stuff but I think you’re hitting on an age old issue, getting digital to sound analogue, to my ears even a budget TT with a good record will play things in a way no digital source, no matter how high end, just can’t. That said I think my NDX2/555 playing FLAC>WAV from my NAS goes closer than my CDS3 did so in a way I’m surprised the 333 doesn’t do the same but different ears etc. So sorry but I doubt you will get it closer to your vinyl!
That’s a good suggestion, thanks. I have heard a Hugo + MScaler in my setup and I did not prefer it to the 333. But I assume Dave is a different game altogether.
The 333/300 gets close. But not close enough for my ears. One of the reasons I am considering the MPD-8 are the endorsements claiming it achieves the impossible.
I am not ruling that out. I could sell the 300 and keep the 333 as a transport I suppose, though for the price I believe a dedicated transport only device may do a better job.
When I listened to some New Classic systems at my dealers, at the end of the last demo session I asked him to put a Chord Dave, which I know well, between the 333 and 332. I was staggered by the difference it made compared to the 333 analogue output. I was expecting a significant improvement, but the Dave was just light years ahead.
Whether the 333 was contributing as a digital transport more than something cheaper, such as an ND5XS2, I wouldn’t know.
I’m not sure. More than one member here bought a Naim streamer with the intention of using it as a transport from the outset and never using the analogue output at all. They seem to think it’s digital out is very capable.
I’m not saying that is what I would do. But in your situation, it may be a logical step and is certainly the most cost effective. I suspect there are DACs you can get for the resale value of the NPX300 that are already a significant upgrade.
This is a perfect example of us all hearing and wanting different things. After I acquired my 332, I had many sources over the course of 6+ months. The DAVE was one of them fed by the ND5 XS2. I’d owned the Qutest for years and have always just kept it around as a spare DAC, so I’m very familiar with it. It has always impressed me for the money. I expected a lot from the DAVE being 9x the price of the Qutest. It just didn’t impress me. It reminded me of Hegel DACs; although better. It had spot lit imaging and pulled out all the detail, but sounded manufactured to me. It also sounded a bit polite and lacked space and air compared to Naim sources. It just didn’t sound natural to my ears. I tried for over a month to let it win me over and always wanted to go back to the NDX2/XPS DR. I now own the 333 bare and would take it any day over the DAVE. I did not have the M Scaler when I had the DAVE, so I’m sure that would have helped. However, that then adds to the cost and many other DACs should then be considered once you are creeping up on $20k.
To the original poster; you’re going to give up something to get something else. You never get it all. You aren’t going to get the Naim presentation by going to another brand, but you may like something else overall. Your ears will have to decide.
How about either a Nagra streamer taking over streaming duties or a Nagra or Weiss DAC 204 taking over DAC duties? I ask more to see if anyone has experience using these with Naim than as a suggestion.
Difficult to reconcile ChrisSu’s and Smoothfidelity’s contrasting opinions of the addition of a Dave to a Naim streamer to a 300 system.
I have never heard a Dave but I did own a TT2 for a good few years albeit not in a Naim system at the time. Quite a few folks on here like what a Chord DAC brings to an OC Naim set up.
[quote=“Smoothfidelity, post:12, topic:38044”]
It just didn’t sound natural to my ears. I tried for over a month to let it win me over and always wanted to go back to the NDX2/XPS DR. I now own the 333 bare and would take it any day over the DAVE.
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Thinking about this further I’ve never met DAVE and haven’t heard the 333, but given its reputation and my hugely positive experience with the NDX2 I’m surprised the 333 isn’t cutting it. But of course it’s all subjective, but the OP might also bear in mind that on more than a few occasions folks have left Naim to return.
I would not go as far to say that the 333 is not cutting it. It’s a brilliant digital source and impresses me all the time. What I am asking is, if I want to increase the spend and go for separates to get closer to analogue, what would be some good upgrade options.
I would find it very difficult to believe that anyone would subjectively prefer the 333/332/250/Titan 808 system I heard without Dave compared to with it. Of course personal preferences will vary on many parameters, but when more objective differences, in this case to the soundstage, bass and treble extension, and details audible through a lower noise floor, manifest themselves so clearly, I cannot see how anyone would prefer the system without those improvements.
In a different system it may be that these changes manifest themselves in different ways. When I first heard Dave in an NDX/282/250DR system its benefits were far less obvious that they were in the New Classic system.
Haha. Finding it difficult to believe how someone else perceives something could be attributed to the start of a lot of wars I suspect
Put it this way, how many times have you heard a high end system or s system of someone else and it was just dire (to you). Your inner monologue said, what a pile of utter s%%t. They must be deaf. Yet you smile and say, “Sounds great, you must be very chuffed.” ?
I realise that there are a few members who might be somewhat socially challenged and tell their mate it’s rubbish. The point being, I’ve heard the most godawful systems so I don’t find it hard to believe anything someone believes. In fact, the reality is, those godawful systems are only so to the people who don’t like them. They very likely think the same of mine.
One of the worst systems I heard was at a mate’s house. To me it was muffled and for once literally sounded “broken”, not hyperbole. I was polite. But confused as to how they could like it. Later they heard mine and were not as polite. They made it clear they thought my system was utter and absolute rubbish. In this scenario, I was the one with the system costing 20x more than theirs.
I would go for a dCS Bartok (streamer and DAC). Maybe the best DAC in the world, some say. And you won’t even need a preamp You can plug it directly into the power amp.
You can plug it directly into the power amp.