Diminishing returns

Hi-Fi Corner
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Subjectively speaking; anyone xan find examples of people on the internet liking any given combination (it is a large world we live on); but people who don’t know that better exists and being happy with what they have is only a part of the story.

Whilst we can champion such opinions and see them as re enforcing our Hopes (/beliefs)… when people vehemently shoot down such speculation as fantasy- it isn’t always motivated by ‘buyers remorse’ or some need to validate a costly pathway we have gone down…

Having personally experienced the vastly better ‘digital output’ from $4k pricepoint TVs (vs budget models), Digital tranport quality truly matters; more so into better DACd as they can generally ‘scale up’ with better associated equipment.

That being said- no denying the bliss/joy of hearing budget crap running through 10k+$ DACs - the goosebumps of seeing a 200$ ‘transport’ sound so good is unreal.

any without the imagination or science curiosity to then try better, is stopping at a shabby run down inn right before they hit Holywood.

The food and view might be nice, but just around the corner…

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I agree wholeheartedly…
I exclusively buy bricks and mortar, with my only online purchases being from my local ‘bricks and mortar’ stores online presence. (if forced)

Coming from the country and raised with the resultant ‘courtesy, manners and respect’ (everyone knows everyone)… when I moved to ‘the big smoke’ (aged sixteen) the relationships with my audio retailers was everything to me…
(good advice saving me many pitfalls).

As an example regarding ‘empowered’ by assistance from industry veteran(s); my first centre speaker was in fact a pair of Bowers and Wilkins bookshelf speakers… (I was running dedicated power amps from a surround processor anyway, so two speakers doing the job of one’ was easier to implement, anyway… and integrated well into my surround setup, as a speaker on either side of the screen reinforced the centre stage, and options for above and below the screen started to screw with timing/delay…

Confidently buying something and using it in a way previously unconsidered is something that a quick chat with a person who lives and breathes this stuff daily - super easy to sort out.

I do not shop around.
I look at the webpages of stores I want to support, and then research the products they offer.

I believe that my money supporting a local business empowers them to continue to support our local market; something I value knowing that bricks and mortar retail is generally considered unsustainable vs ‘internet bargains’.

Having worked in retail at stores where people use our sales staff to make informered choices, and then ‘buy online’ to save 3%, and then come to our store for ‘help setting up’…
I am always willing to pay a small margin to ensure my local retailer is more likely to stick around…

Sadly, I am on the opposite side of the continent to where I grew up, and have had to make new ‘friends’ at retail.

The first TWO stores I invested in are now closed.
I then found a great marriage with my present audio retailer… (every new purchase made in last four-five years through them, bar a handful of second hand purchases from trading posts, eg Oppo bluray player!)

Other than a Questyle music player bought at another local store on clearance,… even though I have friends who retail in ‘other audio stores’; I never shop elsewhere due to positive relationships already built…

My local audio store has dropped the ball many times (orders never followed up on etc), but has also bent over backwards for me many more times…

The reason I only buy from them?
honesty, and trusting their opinions.

They have talked me out of more sales (sidegrades) and kept me focused on my target.
turing down a dollar today to maybe net a dollar tomorrow is ‘top tier’ customer service in my eyes… They honour me as a person and keeps me honouring THEM as a business.

Relationships like that lead to sales of products based on recommendation alone.

I have bought 80%+ products having never seen them (or heard) them.

Supporting local businesses is really just supporting our own interests… Strange time in history that we have to so vehemently vote with ‘our wallets’.

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63

This is the secret to digital audio perfection, FR. You should try it, everybody knows that EMI can’t travel through custard. :wink:

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Blimey, let the bloke buy a Wiim!

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I couldn’t agree more, I have never haggled but always want good service.

I want longevity in the relationship and for people to make a decent profit - I want them to be around …

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I think I have the same attitude as you. I have always paid the full asking price for new kit. Having the support of a dealer is very important to me. He is only 10 minutes walk away. When you look at the staff costs and overheads and the relatively low volume of sales it can’t be an easy business to make a good return.
Every time I have had a problem he has come round including assembling my Ron Smith aerial in the loft! Recently I got a Nat 01 for £700 from him. He had sold it to the original owner and new the service history, arranged a full service and then installed it. I even buy my TV’s from him as I want to make sure that TV sounds brilliant through my Naim amps. He found there was a generic problem using a dac with the LG TV and connected up the headphone out on the TV to the Nac 252.

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Talk of dealer relationship/commitment and buying only from them, maybe even feeling you can trust wholly on their judgement, sounds wonderful! But only workable if you have a very good dealer sufficiently near to you, such dealer genuinely more interested in meeting your needs than making best profit (do they really offer to play you a 1k unit if it genuinely sounds as good or virtually as good as the £10k one you came to audition?). And assuming they stock all things you might be interested in (taking speakers, how many stock all the speakers listed in the various suggestions to listen in the various requests for ideas on this forum?). Meanwhile building a relationship implies a need for sufficiently frequent purchases to remain known, and of course only likely to be practicable if you remain living in the same area.

A perfect dealer sounds worth their weight in gold - however only good if you’ve got the gold! Cheerfully paying list price is great for those with sufficient disposable income - for others that can make the difference between one level of system over another. Also for those maximising buying power by buying some kit secondhand, the chances of one single dealer having everything that might be wanted, let alone when wanted, reduces considerably.

Over my 55 year hifi career I have bought from a variety of sources, at times with extremely limited disposable income driving a need for best price, while pursuit of career has had me move around the country, until my last move (with no dealers near me at all) the longest in any one place was 10 years. I have come across small number of very good dealers to whom I would been very happy to go back to and buy again if they stock what I want to hear, and I have come across some whose thresholds I would not bother crossing again.

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The perfect dealer for Naim does not exist in most countries. I have bought from dealers, the last a 552DR. The UK dealer was very happy to supply me in France with a substantial discount as long as I bought from the door in the UK and arranged my own transport. He honoured the guarantee but said he couldn’t install. Fair enough. Meanwhile my nearest Naim dealer in France 50 km away, is a car audio shop in a small estate shopping arcade which sells Focal car speakers. The thought of handing over 25k and waiting for a delivery, to such an establishment is beyond me.

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Living near SE London I am obviously spoiled for good dealerships IB. I think the argument still holds true though. A symbiotic relationship benefits both and he is only 20 minutes away by car.

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Agree, I started on the Naim track 20 years ago with Griffin Audio in Birmingham, SE London is well provided, but I also travel up to Derby (easy from N London).

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A good dealer is worth their weight in gold. I’ve been going to Doug Brady for decades and long before they moved to Warrington, their service and support is amazing even on products I’ve bought elsewhere. Acoustica in Chester are also excellent and I bought aot of my Naim kit their back in the day

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You can also buy a device, which provides an Ethernet connection, improving the stability even more. I bought 3 for peanuts years ago and still have one left after being generous to family & friends.

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When I started out, living on the west edge of London, there was a small hifi shop in the local high street, but way outside my beginning budget, and from what I saw not a huge range. (Called Musicraft - wonder if any connection with @Musicraft?). And of course there were a number of stores in central London just a tube ride away, some “proper” dealers where I saw dream products and hearing good sound (e.g. Imhofs, others discount stores (Laskys et al). Also at that time mail order was normal, with every hifi magazine carrying adverts for dozens of stores including pricelists. After much research/reading I assembled my first system from components bought from a variety of stores, based on spec and cost: I was still at school with extremely tight budget so getting best sound for the money was my driver. I suppose that set my habits for the coming years - and yes it did appear some other places had more dealers than others ( IIRC my TT upgrade, by mail order, was from a trader a bit SE of London, who is still trading over 50 years later, now with numerous branches.

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In my system in the office at work, I use a WiiM Pro with Tidal Connect directly (well through an AC12) into a pair of Meridian DSP3200’s.

I find it to be fairly impressive. I’d consider getting the WiiM clock upgraded to low jitter (I forget the name of the company that does it) but I’d struggle to justify anything more pricey. That said, it’s hardly a dedicated listening room environment.

I actually just today bought a used NAP200 as my first entry into Naim.

This is for a music only system in the dining room. For now, my Meridian G61R will do duties as the DAC and stereo preamp as I am upgrading the home theatre to Atmos and the Meridian has been replaced by a JBL Synthesis.

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Got home from holiday today and had a Wiim pro plus waiting for me. All set up via optical to my Dave and it works very well for Spotify which is all I wanted it for. A quick test with local files suggests it’s OK for it’s price but, as you would expect, it’s not a replacement for any ofy other sources. The Mrs will be very pleased with its Spotify though.

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