If you feel like sharing your light on a dark area of SQ for me, I would appreciate.
I’m looking for a new setup for my UnitiQute and there is an opportunity for a pair of Dynaudio Emit M10 with a Rel T/5x.
My only experience with a sub was a 24hrs disaster where everything went back to the store quickly. (Probably cause by a good mix of me not knowing what I was doing, with low-fi equipment at the time)
My main question is, with that kind of setup, is there gap between the frequency of the bookshelf and the sub?
Also, soundstage is important for me, will it work?
I did copy the specs of each below. I see how low the sub can go, but no indication of how high.
I understand we can set the frequency filter, but will it match the bookshelf at some point, or something will be missing?
Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts!
LOW FREQUENCY EXTENTION = -6dB at 32 Hz
POWER OUTPUT = 125 watts (RMS)
AMPLIFIER TYPE Class A/B
Sensitivity (dB @ 2.83V/1m) = 86
Lower Cutoff (Hz @ +/- 3 dB) = 50
Upper Cutoff (kHz @ +/- 3 dB) = 23
Box Principle = Bass reflex rear ported Crossover 2-way Crossover
Frequency (Hz) = 1800 Hz
My office system is a Naim Atom with a pair of wall-mounted Dynaudio Audience 52SE and a REL R-328. Like with my system the REL sub should enhance your system’s overall response and soundstage, as long as you get it dialed in properly. Use the high-level connections.
Most mistakes with setup are setting the sub crossover to high and gain too low, resulting in boomy bass and loss of definition. Don’t be afraid to experiment with crossover and gain until you get it dialed in. Also be sure to set the phase correctly before anything else. The REL website has plenty of info to help.
Thanks for the info!!
Your set up seems to have many similarities (with bigger sub). That’s reassuring.
I’m usually up for challenges like setting a NAS and servers even though I’m not an IT type, weld my NACA5, etc, but settings up a sub the right way seems to me a serious challenge. I fear a little to go in endless fine tunings.
But I’ll make sure to have a serious read as you recommended. … and of course do what we do best, listen to it.
It really depends on both your expectation and the speaker. Some small speakers must be standmounted. Others can actually go on a bookshelf. For the latter, often their lower extreme is in the 60Hz range which I find acceptable.
My advice would be to not overcomplicate the selection process with multiple variables at once. Find speakers you like that work on your shelf, giving a good stereo image and, if poosible, front to back presentation (very hard on a bookshelf).
Live with it a while and then try a couple subs.
Getting both right together is like shooting two moving targets with one bullet. FWIW, recent subs have software that attempts to compensate for placement compromises like corners and side boundaries. The KEF KC-62 is a goid example. I’m sure REL are similar. It may improve on your previous experience.
I don’t know about your question, but might be worth remembering the UQ has a specific setting when integrating with a sub:
The “Small” setting sets a specific low frequency cut off - 100Hz IIRC.
There are four things to take into account when integrating a sub:
Crossover Frequency (the sub’s low pass filter setting)
Level ((the sub’s volume setting)
Phase integrity (bass alignment of main speakers and position of the sub relative to the listener and the main speakers)
Room integration (position of the sub within the room)
A sub can be well integrated into a pair of bookshelf speakers, and in that case can actually improve the soundstage effect. By far the best way to do this is with an instrumentation (i.e. measurement) microphone and audio analysis software such as REW. I have achieved this in a square room using a pair of (modified) Spendor SP2s and a B&W ASW610XP sub. I get a +/- 4db 15Hz to 15kHz (1/6th octave smoothing) and less then 30° phase angle deviation through the sub crossover. I use a miniDSP 2x4 and bass traps to deal with the room modes (there are exaggerated due to the square room).
Have you heard M10s?
I have a pair for background listening in my dining room that I got for cheap and that is the only thing I’d use them for. Not particularly good, IMO.
That is only relevant using a low level input into a REL, connected from the UnitiQute pre out (as per the docs you posted). If you use a high level input (connected from speaker terminals) you would leave it at large.
Look like full of wisdom. Thanks for the advice, I’ll for sure try to put a few steps in my process/project.
That sounds interesting. I have been thinking about playing with a mic and software since a while but I have no knowledge on sound graph analysis. This is interesting.
I’ll need to educate myself on the topic soon.
As for the 30deg thing, this is a notion that I need to learn too.
Thanks god we have internet. Imagine trying to learn all this in the early 80’s.
Thanks the advice!
I did not heard them yet. But to be honest I was expecting some fair to good result. (I heard Dynaudio before but not these ones)
I would really like to have my Qute setup in the basement TV room as a second system in a teenager environment (so not too expensive stuff just in case…). Also Totem Hawk are available second hand. But they would need to be at about 7 inch (17cm) from the wall at best. And not sure if it’s not too much for a Qute. (That would be a half blind buy, no demo possible in my house)
That’s why I’m putting some hope on the M10 and small sub. Maybe I’m on a wrong track(?). But yes for sure I can and will listen to the M10 before buying. Thanks for sharing you experience!
The rear port on the M10 will put more bass into the room if they are close to the rear wall. Putting them on proper speaker stands and moving them around to optimise the sound should give you a better soundstage and more controlled bass. Still, they are nice speakers and could be a good match for the Unitiqute.
That’s when I did my designs for HiFi amps - never commercial, but the second one was very successful and surprised an number of people with mid level commercial designs, and even a Quad 405 owner!
But there again one of the courses I took at university was in electronics!
If you do go down the sub route I can help talk you through it and help interpret the graphs from REW.
That is very kind of you, big thanks! I might really take your offer at some point!
I first need to role back my Synology NAS from DSM 7 to 6 which seems to be against the company philosophy for some reason. If it doesn’t work I’ll just kick it (I already started to put myself in trouble here ) and dive on a Raspberry Pi project to set another server but mainly get Quobuz available on my “old” Naim devices. I know nothing about RPi but I should find my way.
Then the mic and software graph analysis might be a very interesting and fun project !
My elder son ‘borrowed’ my Linn Kans (Mk 1s) many years ago, which he has integrated with a piano black gloss n-Sub. Very impressive sounds from a (relatively) simple set up!
I did a little research on the web. Look like a nice one.
I keep my eye close on second hand market since about 2 years and I don’t see those often. People must like them.
Try speaking to specialist. James Allney at TomTom Audio in St Albans is very good at finding Naim things, and is a decent guy!
I have no financial interest, of course, other than as a (very) satisfied customer over the years.
There’s a piano black n-Sub (unused) listed onBay for £900. I know nothing more than that, but it may be worth a look.
Over the last 40+ years of sub/sat use I’ve found that success is primarily dependent on the room. In the wrong room, there’s little if anything you can do to make the system work. I the right room, you have an invisible system generating live music sound levels and quality.