Dyson E-Car shelved!

Lounge
42

I have been driving all electric for five years. After the first year of troubles it just runs - the only problem has been a broken charger handle.

Petrol driven cars are so messy and inexact in comparison. And the power available depends on the RPM.

Once (the chinese?) put electrics into mass production, which will happen when the batteries allow charging once a week, they will be cheap and very low on service and suitable even without your own charging equipment.

Setting up chrgers is so cheap parking spaces and stores will offer it. That will not happen now with so few cars on the road.

Personally I’m going to try without any private car. Uber, taxi, renting, the brompton plus bus and subway. Probably not cheaper but more freedom.

43

Nice to hear one person saying that! Of course, how easy change will be will very much depend on where people live, work, their family commitments etc. For myself, I am close enough commute to work by bicycle (with added benefits of fitness and health), but foul weather sometimes limits that: Bus is a potential alternative but the 3/4 mile walk at one end in the same foul weather that would stop my cycling doesn’t attract! I have a car, but only use it about once a fortnight on average, for longer journeys ior when heavy/bulky things to carry. And I use ferries with car, or flights and public transport, for visits to family in UK mainland, or for holidays.

I’d love an electric car, but too expensive yet for anything decent: battery range would be fine at home, but no good for more distant travel unless there is real fast charge at roadside services.

44

It’s not really a question of money; or, well, yes…

The electric car is not energy-efficient, so it cannot be economically profitable. And it will never be energy-effective for various reasons, mainly related to the Laws of Thermodynamics; in addition, the planet’s nearly well-known lithium reserves would at best only give to renew the current world car park once, and that at the cost of running out of lithium for virtually any other industrial application; in addition, lithium is energetic and economically expensive to recycle, highly inefficient recycling; in addition, the latest studies indicate that, due to the costly and inefficient manufacturing processes, a new electric car, without starting to circulate, has already emitted more CO2 than a current diesel with 100,000 kms. traveled; in addition…

We will never see the electric car on an industrial and massive scale as the explosion engines have been, that is not the future. At most, and with large injections of grants, it will become a luxury for the rich, paid indirectly by the majority of the poor, with which they will be able to circulate in the cities; and in a showcase with which to feed the dreams and frustrations of the poor payers.

As my grandmother used to say, “to make a loaf of bread with some hooves.”

And what I find most paradoxical and surprising is how a large majority of the best-trained, better-known people in the world, and with a high purchasing power, still do not see, or unintentionally see, these things so obvious, trivial and worldly, and stil live in prison unfounded technooptimism and wishful thinking.

On the other, we are already in the midst of irremissible collapse of this industrial civilization, which, as in all previous civilisational collapses, occurs because we have reached population ecological limits, only now they are planetariums; and that, also similar to what happened in all previous civilisational collapses, lives its best, brightest and most aforementioned moments just before its decilve and sunset.

Cheers.

45

I not sure whether the “we” in your text is just limited to your own family and situation, or whether it’s a message for all of us ?

46

It applies to most people, I think. But sure, not based on a lot of data. I’ve lived in 4 different countries now, so my circle of friends is geographically wide. A lot of people I know here in Vancouver are from other parts of the planet, and have family and friends that live far away. It wouldn’t be this way without cheap, easy, fast transport. Our friends and family would live next door and just down the street.

47

I wasn’t sure which thread to use , Brain Teaser, Electric Cars…the great come-back, or this one.

“Electric Cars - the energy maths”

In the UK, I estimate there are 32 million cars. If we change them all to electric cars, and assuming we continue to travel similar journeys as at present, how much more electricity will we need to generate in order to operate this fleet of cars?

A typical nuclear power station churns out say 3,000MW for about 8,000 hours each year. so the answer could be presented as X additional Nuclear power stations, or the equivalent number of wind turbines or the acreage of solar panels. at a rate of Y every so many years.

If you live in NZ or Canada or… you could think in terms of hydro electric schemes and flooded valleys.

Then do the same calcs with all the HGVs and busses in the UK.

I appreciate that all you e-car converts know these figures off the top of your heads, but i’m struggling at the moment !

48

A very good post … assuming the average car travels 10,000 miles/year and uses 400kw per 1,000 miles, an electric car is using around the same amount of power than an average house per month, so 30 million electric cars would use as much power as 30 millions new houses … that’s a lot of nuclear plant or wind farm …

49

As I said, what is actually needed is for people to abandon personal powered transport - indeed, abandon the majority of travel by powered means… until that happens there will be little change in energy usage.

1 Like
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My rough maths says it is about 20% more electricity needed for 100% EV adoption. Bear in mind that this demand is largely off-peak, so existing distribution infrastructure will cope OK. We charge our Tesla just using a basic 120V outlet. This is the slowest possible option, yet it easily keeps enough charge in the vehicle for daily use.

Private EVs are the “least worst” option for transport in terms of environmental impact. They’re better than ICE vehicles on most measures, but the real trick is that we need to drive less. We need better transit, safer infrastructure for cycling, and increased housing density so we aren’t forced to travel such vast distances for basic needs.

51

I have been driving electric cars for 3+2+2 years. I still have a year left on my 3rd EV lease. Its an i3 BMW with REX. So it goes 100-150 miles on the battery and then you have a motor generator that recharges the battery. Motor Generator/hybrid gets 40 mpg at 70 mph. It also has fast charge so about 20 minutes to go from 20% to 80% at charging stations–need more of them I agree. Takes 2.5 gal petrol. Its a great car–lots of carbon fiber–very high tech—blast to drive. Very quiet and smooth. I don;t thing I will ever own a gas only car again. Probably going to get a Tesla Model Y or BMW X3e next time. US based, so the public transportation is not up to EU/UK standards. Took Bullet train from London to Brussels last month. Very nice. 284 km/hr and very smooth, quieter than an airplane by 10 db according to iPhone SPL meter.

52

No, it diesnt. I charge my electric at home most of the time and it hardly shows on the electric bill.

53

When I get an electric car I will probably install solar or wind generation at home. Currently (sorry!) we don’t use enough electricity to make it worth bothering with. I would guess that an increased take up of electric cars will be accompanied by an increase in micro generation.

54

Then there is the push to electricity for space heating instead of gas or oil. In colder parts of the world I suspect that will require more generation capacity than required for transport. The answer to that is better thermal insulation of homes and business premises (why, oh why, is new construction of homes not required to meet passive house standards?) - and wearing more personal insulation - i.e. putting a jumper on rather than turning up the heating. The latter is actually far more achievable and requires less change of lifestyle than trying to change transport habits…

And in hot countries, why is aircon in public buildings often set so low that people have to put on jackets etc inside?

55

Better building regulations were supposed to be introduced in around 2016 but were shelved ?

56

I don’t know the detailed maths but, apart from anything else, there isn’t going to be an overnight mass switch to EVs. A lot of new wind and solar generation will be installed - we have a wind turbine that generates around 23000 kWh pa which is enough for three families including my EV. Not refining and distributing petrol and diesel will save a lot of energy. A lot of the charging can be managed to keep it away from peak times and car batteries will themselves be used to store energy and balance the grid. The most recent average mileage I saw is 8000 pa, not 10000

57

One or two of you have started with a bit of maths.The chances of any of us on the forum getting it “right” is low. Heck, the chances of anybody getting it right is pretty low as well. It’s all a bit of a wild guess.

Let’s start with the first wild guess. Let’s use a middle of the range Tesla Model 3 as our “typical” e-car. I’m guessing at a full charge of say 70 kWh gives it a range of 250 miles.

Average annual mileage of a typical car ? let’s say 10,000 miles. So our Tesla needs the equivalent of 40 full charges each year making that 2,800 kWh per annum.

32 million vehicles in the UK so we need 89,600,000,000 kWh per year.
Let’s assume that a power station runs 24/7, that’s 8,760 hours each year
So we need about 3 additional power stations, each the size of Hincley C (3,200 MW) running full blast, all year.

At present, UK generating capacity is about 90 GW, but peak demand is about 60 GW. So there is a 50 % safety margin to allow for downtime. That suggests about 4 additional power stations, rather than 3, each capable of delivering 3,200 MW.

Next, perhaps we could look at converting our HGVs and buses to electricity.
Then replacing our ageing existing Nuclear sets (9 GW i think)
Oh, and then the biggest remaining culprit, those gas-fired stations (18 GW or thereabouts)

I suppose we should stop using North Sea gas for heating, but I don’t have a number ready to hand at the moment !

As I said at the start, the above figures are a bit of a wild guess, not even a “starter for ten” and I would be delighted to have verifiable contributions such that those figures could be adjusted and be more meaningful.

58

I agree with Jan. When you do the numbers, here in the US, I am driving my electric car for the equivalent of 1$/Gal Gasoline. Prices vary, but right now its about $2.70 /gal. I have paid over $5.00 a few years ago, just before the oil glut and things were riding high.

59

Ok. Here in the UK petrol is selling for about £1.30 a litre.
Of this, 60p is the petrol, 58p is the fuel duty and 22p is the VAT
In other words, 60p for the product, 80p tax.

That 80p tax, plus a few other little tax appendages to car ownership brings in c. £40bn pa.

Now, when (not now, but when) we all convert to e-cars, where will the Gov. levy that £40bn revenue. It will, that’s for sure. But where will it lay ?

60

Indeed taxes must be paid and it is currently easy to draw this from motorists of IC cars, I suspect that this will continue, until public transport becomes the norm, then they will tax that more instead!

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I should also add, and I think those who own EV would mostly agree, if the cost were the same, I would prefer the EV, as its just a better car–quieter, smoother, and in the case of Tesla, significantly safer. Model Y is high on my list for next car.