So this would in effect produce a ring circuit for the hi-fi rather than a radial? Am I understanding correctly?
Yes, 2 cables into a single plug is fine as long as they’re not too fat. I did the same back then, with pre/power in one socket and LP12 in the other. Life was simple back then.
Sorry. We are not making a ring, but simply running two cables in parallel between A and B. 10 x 10 = 100 and 2 x 6 x 6 =72, but the latter is easier to squeeze into most sockets.
Nick, I’m probably being thick here, but isn’t two cables in parallel essentialy the same configuration as a ring, if it’s only feeding one socket? ie. it’s a ring circuit with just one socket on it. If further sockets are daisy-chained from that socket with two cables then I don’t know what that would amount to - a sub-ring?! I’m probably completely wrong - just trying to get a firm handle on all this for when (if!) I get around to installing one.
Thanks for the feedback makes you think I’d have to have the two side by side to here the difference
Picture the ring version as a single lane road running between 2 roundabouts. Picture the 2 parallel cable option as a 2-lane 1-way street running from start (meter) to end (living room). Does that help or am I just making things even less clear?
There really is no reason for spending 1p on doing anything on spending huge amounts of money on “upgrading” any ring circuit in the UK. It dose not matter if you spend £hundreds or £thousands on 6mm, 4mm or even 10mm. The supply you are given is still the same.
The biggest difference you will ever see and hear is by using a Balanced Power Supply to feed your main system from the mains. By that i mean any and all of your interconnected Naim parts.
Feed them ALL from a balanced power supply and you will wonder why you spent all that money on rubbish that did nothing beforehand.
That’s certainly not my experience. Of course, this may depend on how good and modern your wiring is, and what else is on the same circuit at the same time.
Sorry Nick, I don’t get it. Let me tell you how I see it and then perhaps you can put me right.
Picture a typical ring main as an actual ring. The CU at one point and, let’s say 3 sockets at various random points on the ring. So far so good.
Now let’s remove two of those sockets so that we have only one socket left on the ring. So what we now have is point A, the CU, and point B, the socket, connected together by two lengths of cable, albeit in the shape of a ring. Let’s now re-arrange that cable so that instead of describing a ring it is now two lengths of cable in parallel. That is as I see it what you are describing. Which appears to me to be a ring circuit.
The supply from the grid may be the same but there are other factors at play. A dedicated hi-fi supply is cleaner as it does not share that supply with all manner of other domestic equipment which can pollute it.
Having an actual power supply between the mains and your equipment may well be beneficial and may bring bigger improvements. But it does not mean that a dedicated hi-fi circuit is not beneficial too.
Imagine that the electricity is a single wire carrying DC for a mo. In a flattened ring, the electrons would be flowing up one wire and down the other. In 2 parallel lines, they are flowing down both wires simultaneously.
I’m a bit confused but are you saying therefore that if the cable is arranged in a ring configuration the electrons behave differently to if the same circuit is re-arranged, without changing any connections, so that the wires now run parallel?
I’ll attempt to clarify what I’m saying. Imagine four single wires carrying a DC current. The first two wires arranged in the shape of an O. The second two in the shape of an 11.
Now connect the two wires in the shape of the O at the top and bottom to two devices, A and B. A being at 12 o’clock and B being at 6 o’clock. Also connect the two wires in the shape of an 11 to two devices at the top and bottom, call them C and D, C being at the top and D at the bottom.
As far as I can see these two arrangements are absolutely electrically identical. If I understand correctly, you are saying that in the first one the electrons will flow from device A say clockwise to device B and then continue to flow clockwise from device B to device A around the ring. In the second arrangement you seem to be saying that this is no longer the case and the electrons will flow from device C at the top to device D at the bottom through both cables in the same direction simultaneously.
I’m half asleep still so maybe I’m completely misunderstanding you. But this is what you seem to be saying.
If two cables start at the same point and finish at the same point even if that end point is one socket- is a ring.
A radial is one cable.
That is my understanding.
A cable is typically made of many strands of copper, but imagine that there were just two. Those strands do not make a ring.
No they don’t. But that is because they are are not insulated. They are in electrical contact for their entire length and so behave to all intents and purposes as if they were a single strand of wire. If they were insulated and only connected at each end then that would indeed constitute a ring.
I think I must be missing your point.
If what travels down each strand is the same at any given moment and no current can ever travel around the ring that you picture, how is it meaningful to describe it as a ring?
Is a single cable with some strands isolated from others (like a speaker cable) always fairly viewed as making a ring?
Nick, I think you are muddying the waters here and things can get potentially very confusing. As far as I am aware it is not usual to talk about ring or radial circuits within a single cable and to consider each strand of that cable (if insulated) part of a ring. Forget this aspect for moment. No doubt someone with greater knowledge may clarify this aspect later!
Basically if a consumer unit is connected to a single socket with two twin and earth cables then that constitutes a ring circuit. If it is connected using only one twin and earth cable then that is a radial.
What you seem to be thinking, if I understand correctly, is that connecting with two twin and earth cables amounts to the same configuration as using a single cable of double the CSA. But it doesn’t. It is a different type of circuit, ie. a ring rather than a radial. And it will behave differently.
The sparks who made my dedicated supply did not take that view.
I also shared this thread with a chum with over 30 years experience in recording studios-I think you have made his day.