End of my tether

I’ve heard the Auralic @Bobthebuilder and, for me, I found them a little antiseptic. The BBC issue would also be a dealbreaker. However, thanks for the suggestion.

I must say I agree with you re:the original Naim streamers. For me the original NDX was enough to put me off streaming for a long time if that was what Naim thought equivalent to my CDX2. At NDS level it began to sound musical but that was out of my reach and would clearly require similar uplifts in amplification.

The NDX2 is a very different kettle of fish I think. Just short of an NDS but more musical in many respects.

1 Like

As it seems your mind is settling more on the NDX2 I wan’t try to push home my suggestion but out of interest was the Auralic you heard using it’s on board Dac or an off board because I know lots of people find the on board dac a bit boring but once powered by a decent Linear PSU I actually liked the analogue outputs on the Aries but now have it connected to an off board Dac.

Now that I’m using an all Quad system things that don’t gel well with Naim amps do and vice versa so any digital source that’s quite analytical or a bit sharp is a perfect match.

Apparently there is a work around though I’ve not tried it but if you copy and paste into the Lightning DS add a station function it does work.

http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/5/select/version/2.0/mediaset/http-icy-aac-lc-a/format/pls/vpid/bbc_radio_three.pls

Depression is an interesting suggestion by @anon39880737

A couple of years ago…my system had me at my wit’s end with a fatiguing sound that didn’t sound good for me and stopped me listening to music at all in the end
I became diapondant and down …but looking back…I was already very down …a time of bad health and not enjoying work
I now wonder if it was the system (I sold up and changed my system completely) or if it was me all along

2 Likes

Well NDX2 plus Innuos or the 2x Innuos plus DAC route.

You are correct though. I heard the Auralic with the onboard DAC. Nagging feeling my dealer sells Auralic so I certainly wouldn’t rule it out if it was a free hit in terms if dem time.

@anon23139555 it was indeed an interesting suggestion. I’m just glad it’s not true.

Going way off topic but I’ve had three such flirtations. One briefly in my early 20s, which took me years to get to the bottom of but I’m now very clear was eye related. At that point specific music saved me. One between ten and fifteen years ago when my son was born and was very ill indeed. In that period I acquired much of this system and again whilst music contributed, counselling at that point offered some really clarity. One about seven years ago when my best friend died. That was an object lesson in transference. I spent a year unable to listen to music, especially those tastes we shared, but happy to play musical instruments. Go figure.

Right now, yes, there is undoubtedly tiredness but all the more reason to take my time and seek the counsel of others. What there most definitely isn’t is depression. I’m probably the fittest I’ve been in twenty years; I walk four miles before work every day and I’m spending wonderful day in the garden every weekend getting things back in shape. What there isn’t is a CDX2 sounding like a CDX2.

Thanks. I have the Vega G2 not an Aries and I have a feeling your workaround needs an Aries. Anyway, I use MinimServer as my primary local music server, so adding the BBC streams works OK. It would just be neater if BBC R4 were in with R3 in the Internet radio section. The SQ for a well-produced radio play can be very worthwhile.

Roger

Things move on apace. My dealer can do me another dem of the NDX2/Innuos route but not Innuos/Qutest as they ceased to stock Qutest about 6 months ago. Someone else I know has offered me a dem of the Innuos boxes with an X-Sabre Pro MQA. I don’t need or want the MQA element but I’m happy to listen. Still trying to find someone who can dem Innuos and the Qutest. Have also been talking to Innuos who seem to recommend/like the Qutest at the £2k level. Also exploring some other interesting options (if I part ex the CDX2/XPS2 and Burndy and keep saving) like the Border Patrol DAC (no current UK distributor) and Denafrips Terninator.

Have to say I’m struggling to sell myself an NDX2 in this context.

1 Like

I bought an innuos recently, was very impressed indeed by Joe well if worked directly into my Hugo TT 2. I’ve since added a phoenix to it which is just brilliant. Frankly I don’t know why you’d add the extra complexity of a streamer to it because they are brilliant via usb into a good DAC

2 Likes

A nice summary of my thinking. The NDX2 screen appears as much liability as it is pretty. I’ve read nothing suggesting a compelling argument for it being essential. The app is well respected but both my son and I could list 10 obvious improvements required without a seconds thought. Add in a Burndy which, frankly is a cable which creates more issues than needs be the case, and whilst I might still buy one based on sound quality, the idea of a standalone DAC with none of those issues grows ever more attractive.

I could probably run to a TT2 but don’t need the extra functionality. The Qutest, at least on paper, appears to fit the bill nicely. The price of a 2TB Zenith 3 plus a Phoenix makes it a hugely attractive alternative. Just need to find someone in GM who can demo both.

I’m fascinated by the other DAC I’m being offered if only because it’s so little reviewed.

Yeah I know. There is the consistency argument. I’m not sure that’s enough to be honest. Having heard an NDX2/Zen mini and Zenith mark 2 it was the latter devices which impressed not the former. I’m absolutely not convinced the cabling is simpler with the NDX2 in there at all though. The opposite is true I would say. Naim cable dressing has become a veritable pain in the arse as far as I’m concerned. Bar a further NDX2 demo which may yet change my mind I have to say I’m struggling to see anything which comes near the Zenith plus Phoenix.

Have read about the RME an awful lot and it is indeed an option. I get a sense it’s a pleasant but not stunning alternative to the Qutest but, given the opportunity, would also be happy to demo it.

I’ve a month off over Christmas. Tiers permitting it could be very interesting.

Doug Brady in Warrington sells the Innuos and the Chord if you are anywhere near there

Not far away at all. Not a shop I’ve ever visited but I feel an email coming on for starters. Thanks.

No worries, their customer service is excellent

Emailed them post football. Thanks for that. Means I have a couple of options now.

1 Like

And just got an email from them to say they’re opening up from tomorrow and happy to arrange dems.

Roger

Yep … that’s exactly why I went for the ND5XS2.

Mike, perhaps you should consider one too.

No dodgy screen and using it with an external DAC (Hugo), I doubt that the NDX2 would bring much more to the party.

If I wasn’t using an external DAC, then I’m sure (would hope) that the NDX2 was the better unit.

To my ears, the ND5XS2 with Hugo, sounds better than the bare NDX2 (using its internal DAC). I wasn’t bothered about a screen that I wouldn’t be able to see from my listening position and I have no desire to add an external PSU… so no point spending twice the amount on features I’m not using/won’t use.

DACs and transports seem to be improving all the time, so at least it’s simpler and more cost effective to upgrade the Hugo and/or ND5XS2, as and when something better comes along.

Hopefully that will be a Naim product :grinning: :grinning:

1 Like

Thanks. It’s an interesting conundrum. When I heard the first generation Naim streamers at various dems none of them sounded remotely like Naim level products to me if others present until you hit NDS level. At the launch of the second generation events I can’t say the ND5XS2 impressed at all. The music started with an NDX2/XPS2 DR. So, to some extent that has prejudiced me slightly against the lower Naim streamer. However, if you look at the relative prices it works out broadly as follows:

ND5XS2 plus Hugo 2 plus Innuos Zenith (2TB) as server only - £7,700.
NDX2 plus Zenith - £8,800 (but bear in mind I’ve already a non DR XPS2 to add to the NDX2).
Zenith as streamer/server plus Phoenix plus Qutest - £6,950.

I need only the DAC from the Hugo so… Qutest and a saving of £600 which would bring option 1 down to £7,100.

There isn’t really much in it but I still think the Naim app fares relatively poorly and the over sensitive cabling is a PITA.

I could see myself edging towards your suggestion as something at minimum to dem against option 3. It will come down to

  • preferred musical presentation, and,
  • whether the Phoenix boosts what the Qutest can do more than what an ND5XS2 offers to the DAC.

I can’t help but think it can’t but a demo is in order.

I would bet serious amounts of money that the Phoenix would. It’s an absolutely brilliant device that’s addictive into a good DAC

1 Like

Some good options Mike and as you say only after a demo will the way forward become clearer. The first option has a bit of overlap, wasted investment ?, two DAC’s, two streaming platforms, although you note the Zenith as server only I think it would certainly hold it’s own as a streaming platform against the ND5XS2. Perhaps an even more cost effective option may be the Zenith plus the Qutest. Although I hear nothing but good things about the Phoenix.
Enjoy the journey.

Yes, I’m inclined to agree. That’s why I’m currently biased towards the third option but… we’ll see.