Iām just trying to work out what Mike meant. Flip flops? Moats? Does this mean something I donāt understand? I certainly know what MILF means and I cannot for the life of me imagine how it relates to switches. But then Mike lives in Brighton, which is so much more interesting than Emsworth.
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Itās funny because when we are in ā Systems pics thread, we have very quick some ā back on topicā and stop ā all these bullshitsā, when some outside discussions are posted.
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Flip flops are basic logic circuits, they are very common and are the basis of many digital logic blocks/circuits if you like. Look up wiki flip flops. They can be used to store bits and present that bit of data to further logic in time with a clock Signal
Erm, itās not an āoutside discussionā, since HH is directly posting questions about the switch, surely?
Yes , yesā¦
Flip flops are simply binary latches. They are one of the fundamental building blocks of sequential logic or memory systems. They are controlled by clock pulse edges.
The low jitter doesnāt apply to flip flops them selves, but the clock that drives them. A highly stable clock has little phase distortion, that is the frequency is relatively solid and less likely to wobble about slightly.
Differential I assume simply refers to the fact the Ethernet serial lines are balanced ā¦ and the + and - of the balanced lineS need to processed concurrently. by the media dependent interface of the PHYsical layer of the switch.
In all I think itās marketing artistic licence that apart from the very solid clock is what all switches would incorporate.
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Not much to it physically, one ASIC/FPGA, a clock board and a series of galvanic isolators for each twisted pair.
Thank you SiS.
Itās interesting and helpful to learn about some of these details.
Simon, is the Melco switch using much different technology, or is that still not understood, under wraps? Its price is almost 4 times this switch.
I once bought the ER and intended to keep it, not based on its SQ it says it would improve, but out of support/sympathy/encouragement for the Uptone firm, et al.
Then one day Alex (aka SuperDad) sent me the weird, strange ER white paper, that prompted me to return the ER immediately, as that reminds me of quite a few strange, useless, pseudo papers, from some strange people (including a man who claimed that he once ran for the US presidential office), that I have come across, and crossed paths many times during my professional life.
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I donāt know, but I expect would be similarā¦ these are elements that I expect all switches, routers that Network interfaces would incorporateā¦ they are basic building blocks.
It is interesting to recognise the clocking is duplex, and relies on the switch clock as well as the host network interface clock for low jitter two way serial communication.
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Oh dearā¦ it is a shameā¦ as there are genuinely low noise Ethernet PHY interfaces and line drivers for Sensitive systems, and the engineering application white papers for such components are well grounded and make no reference to fairy dust or pseudo science.
These so called audiophile consumer products make no mention of such details. Sure the clocks are important, but that is just one of many considerations such as
Differential signal path imbalance
Chassis coupled noise
PCB coupled noise
Magnetic coupling noise
Direct capacitive signal coupling
Power/Ground plane coupling
Digital I/O noise coupling
Perhaps one day we will see a genuine low noise switch for sensitive audio applications for the consumer that cover all these aspects apart from just one or two of the easier ones that can be āboltedā on such as the clock.
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They exist alreadyā¦
Point of correction, Brighton beach isnāt sandy.
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I can second that.
Iām intrigued. A question for those that have tried it (with +ve results).
Many here run setups that cost more than my house (really!) Do you think the benefits would still be there with a more modest setup.
Thank you for that, Simon. Iām a little wiser now. My conclusion is that my Cisco isnāt particularly lacking. This is all something of a minefield - for example if one was to trial just one of these switches, would it be the EE or the UR? - but it is of course a minefield that can simply not be entered.
EE or UR, from what I have seen they appear to be a much of a muchness ā¦ they are basic LAN switch devices with upgraded clocks, and single voltage linear power suppliesā¦and a solid case with possibly some physical mechanical isolation. They might be worth considering if you must position very close to your audio equipment, as opposed to keeping your switches and router well away, which is what I would recommend anywayā¦ especially as the Cisco devices do appear to be slightly microphonic.
I guess my concern as I have put in other posts, is that they donāt appear to optimise the Ethernet segment for your streamer like say the Cisco Catalyst devices do by defaultā¦ they seem to focus on serial line clock noise, and possibly ground plane/mechanical noise ā¦ worthwhile but there are many other considerations.
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Thanks Simon, thatās a useful summary, though not one that EE or UR are likely to use in their marketing. Iāve not tried these and am not taking a view on their efficacy, but their marketing would seem highly likely to give a significant reading on the bullshit detector.
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