I do wonder whether Amin at that web site kind of knows before he does his tests that he won’t find anything, and is doing it just so he can pronounce “look this does nothing” and get some more traffic to his site. So his site is about “scientific” testing of digital devices. I agree with you guys that a sine wave seems a weird way to test a network switch. But can such a switch be tested scientifically in a way that would give insight into how it affects music streaming?
I don’t know about music, but as Simon pointed out it is a real problem in engineering and there are sophisticated test methods. Whether they work for music, I don’t know, but that doesn’t excuse using unsuitable methods and then basking in their glorified “skepticism”, which amounts to the same thing as not believing in general relativity or quantum mechanics in the 1920s. Lazy “scientific” skepticism and harmful science denial are in essence the same sloppy thinking, just in different guises.
And I think ultimately it heavily depends on the end point gear one is using. I have both a Linn KDS and more recently a dCS Rossini. Both engineering departments representatives have gone out of their way to publically state on forums that their equipment is agnostic to all of this and is built to deal with these various problems. The recommendation from both companies has always been standard (even consumer grade) Ethernet switchs and standard certified CAT6 cable (unshielded for dCS).
I think different equipment may be dependant on fortifying the ethernet “backbone” for optimum performance. I recall Simon you making a point that the new generation of Naim digital components made dramatic improvements in their streaming and Ethernet capabilities.
Best
Gregg
Indeed, but we are talking different things… Ethernet is a data communication network protocol, and the current Naim streamers have been made more robust at the TCP level, another network protocol layer which uses the services provided by the Ethernet data communication protocol. So ‘strengthening’ the Ethernet capability has no bearing on electrical noise.
The noise aspects we are mostly discussing here and addressed with the 10/100BaseT noise mitigation components and techniques I reference are to do with network cables, interfaces and switches. These are to do with the physical electrical characteristics of the connections and links, the analogue electrical aspects if you will… and not the digital network.
I should also add that new streamers internally adopt LVDS interfacing to help mitigate coupled electrical noise from internal digital circuitry such as the streamer interfacing module.
You can perhaps now see why I am a great fan of decoupling the DAC as much as possible from the streaming transport… it provides another coupling buffer to impede noise. It also helps to decouple aspects of the home network away from sound quality and performance.
You might be interested in this interview. 40 minutes in he starts talking about dacs/clocking mechanisms.
Chord customer support got back to me. So YES the C-stream cable IS directional, with a black dot indicating “source”. And they clarified what that means - so they say if using the cable from router to 8switch, then router = source. If using cable from 8switch to streamer/server, then 8switch = source.
Just ordered an EE8 to challenge my Cisco 2960.
nice, let us know how you find it
I have BJ Cat6a all the way from my office QNAP NAS Roon core to wall socket, then inside electrical cabinet from socket to router and from router to socket and then again in the living room where my setup lies from wall socket to EE8… but it stops there. From EE8 to Linn ADSM, Chord C-Stream is clearly better in my setup. I can’t explain this, I’ve tried BJ Cat6a all the way and it was worse only in between EE8 and ADSM. From living room wall socket to EE8, BJ Cat6a beats C-stream hands down (I had two C-streams when I auditioned EE8, before buying it). But that last leg of 0,75cm from EE8 to ADSM, C-stream rocks. Inside my apartment walls runs bulk Cat6 cable.
Could it maybe have something to do with how my setup is grounded? C-stream has metallic connectors so I guess it makes electrical connection between EE8 and ADSM. In my setup this seems to work. But never make electrical connection between wall socket and your hifi system.
Oh and someone mentioned the small black dot. There’s one on my C-stream and text runs against the black dot if plugged according to the black dot being connected to the source (EE8).
Can one buy the BJC within Europe nowadays? They seem to push people to the US site due to Brexit and that adds 35USD shipping… + VAT and taxes…
I’ve bought all my BJC wires from them in Seattle. I understood that was the only way to get them.
Welcome to Blue Jeans Cable’s UK website, recently updated post-Brexit to deal with new conditions on shipping to the UK. If you’re a customer with a non-UK shipping address, please go to our main website, bluejeanscable.com, which serves the rest of the world.
Although Blue Jeans Cable is located in Seattle, Washington, USA, this site is designed to make purchasing in the UK as seamless as if we were a UK supplier. We are VAT-registered in the UK; our prices on this site are VAT-inclusive; and we use fast shipping methods to make sure things will get to you promptly. Additionally, we have set things up with our shipping companies to ensure that when you order from this site for UK delivery, you will not owe any customs duty or VAT upon delivery, regardless of the size of the order.
Fair enough. I bought all mine from the US without problems.
I concur with your findings. I have BJ CAT6a all the way to my EE 8 switch but can run it directly into my Node 2i if I want, However, this sounds much worse than running to the EE 8 switch and then C stream to Node 2i. Now this could be the EE switch making all the difference but I have a length of Belden Catsnake that I’ve tried and this is no where near as good as the C stream. The C stream and EE switch just seem a remarkable combination.
Patu
Did the ee8 make an audible difference when you got it?
I thought those Linn streamers were fairly immune to network tweaks?
Jim
It sure did. I used Netgear GS105 + iFi iPower before. I switched back and forth between these two for few times and heard constant improvement with EE8. I used the same ethernet cables and just switched the switch. EE8 has different voltage than GS105, otherwise I’d have used the same PSU since that probably has something to do with the differences also. I use the provided stock PSU for EE8.
I quote myself from earlier in this thread:
”After switching GS105 and 8S few times tonight, I can say that 8S does improve the sound. What surprised me is that it’s the PRaT which improved most. Dynamics and sound balance are pretty much on par with both, maybe slightly deeper bass with 8S, but with 8S everything is easier to follow. The famous foot tapping factor is higher and the sound opens up better.”
Good stuff.
Thanks Patu.
I hope that happens in my system too!
Jim
Great review Patu. It’s about time someone reviewed a switch in terms of its musical performance, rather than the sound it makes!
Hi Moonglum, thank you for sharing this.
So better Chord cables should follow the same logic?
I remember having the Sarum T cable the way you described and thought it sounded better. Then I changed it around thinking source would be the streamer rather than the switch. Still sounds good, but a timely prompt to move things around this weekend to check, hopefully to tie in with the new firmware update.
I’m sure it’s been asked before, but will the update improve the SQ?
Cheers