Ethernet Cable Direction - Advice Appreciated

I think the arrow on the AudioQuest Ethernet cables is something to do what end the screen is connected? For all that I use non-directional certified MeiChord Opal Cat 6 UTP - less noisy than any STP cables I’ve used in my system, and sound better too.

Yes. :bear:

I also thought that - and that the cables made no difference - those were the days of blissful ignorance! :joy:

But I tried it - one way around sounds better for some reason - why unknown and not personally needing a reason before accepting what I hear, I just put it the way around that sounded best and got on with playing music and try to forget about it.
Jut try it and whatever way is better - is better - or no difference.
It is very easy to do but difficult to accept perhaps.

DB.

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But.

Ethernet cable is usually essentially 4 core cable. Data is transmitted from the sender to receiver in a pair of cores. Communication from receiver to the sender uses a different pair of cores.

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I’m no networking guru and so maybe this is all bull (so please be kind in responding if so) but from what I’ve read in this thread and elsewhere, there are different means in some ethernet cables of preventing noise traversing the cable. There’s mention above of a ‘ferrite choke’ effect in the directional Audioquest cables, if this is correct then it makes sense the ‘choke’ is at the destination cable end, as I understand cables can in themselves pick up emf/rfi noise, as well as transmit it from noisy sources. Maybe that’s the same for the directional Chord cables? It also makes sense when discussing floating shield type cables (e.g. Belden Catsnake 6a), if the shield itself can carry emf/rfi noise then disconnecting the shield would prevent this. I’ve seen some OEMs recommended unshielded cables, maybe for that reason.
I also read that the shield in Catsnakes is only disconnected at one end, so with a lot of assumption and with my aforesaid limited knowledge, perhaps the disconnected shield end of the cable is best at the destination, cutting off emf/rfi at the final leg?
Whilst Ethernet cables are bi-directional by nature, if the majority of data for music is flowing to a streamer from a router or other source maybe this is where AQ/Chord are coming from?
My setup is complicated by ROCK NUC for Roon so data is definitely flowing in both directions in that cable:- router->EE8 switch->NUC->EE8 switch->NDX 2. I’ve tried the directional Chord C Stream and Clearway cables in the router->EE8 and EE8->NDX 2 legs and regardless the Catsnake used on all connections (at far less cost) definitely lifted the presentation, not paying any attention to cable directions.
Would be interested to hear if anyone has perceived a better direction on the Catsnake cables though, as the thought of delving about in the birds nest of cables trying different options as opposed to listening fills me with dread :joy:

The Catsnake depends on who’s making it. DesignaCable can supply it how you like: shielding connected at both ends, one end or not at all.

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Use them in the direction of the text on the cables otherwise cats and snakes will enter your garden at midnight on the full moon.

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In TCP, the two ends are talking constantly to each other. E.g., each data packet that is sent by the sender is answered by the receiver with an acknowledgement packet that is sent back to the sender, confirming reception.

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I can’t deny and have to agree. But maybe the noise reduction works better on one side vs the other? Or other reason. Why would Chord bother to advise customers on the direction if there was any difference?
Only advertising reasons to show how serious and experts they are?

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:joy:. Good advice!

Thanks. I have Designacable Catsnake, floating shield. Do you know which (or both) are disconnected in that?

Thanks, I sat a TCP/IP course and exam in a former life. I used to be a firm believer with that background that data is data and should always arrive bit perfect. Of course it does otherwise the music would be garbled however by swapping cables I’ve also learnt that something else is definitely effecting sound quality. It’s an interesting conundrum.

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It’s worth considering that the network stack is imagined as layers. (@rossd I am aware that you are aware, but please bear with me :slight_smile: )

In the logic of communication, the application layer on one side talks to the application layer on the other side, the TCP layer on one side talks to the TCP layer on the other side, and so on down through the layers.

In the implementation, however, the data from the application on one side is sent down the stack through the layers on one side (application data is wrapped into TCP packets, TCP packets are wrapped into IP packets, etc.) and eventually everything is sent to the physical layer where it ends up being converted into electrical waves on the wire, which are detected on the other side and then unwrapped layer by layer up up through the stack until the data reaches the application again.

Ferrite chokes, shields, etc., of course work on the physical layer of electricity on the wire. So yes, maybe they have on effect on noise ingress, etc. My problem with this part is just that a) this is well known and considered in the design of Ethernet, or it would not work, and b) none of the boutique cable manufacturers ever demonstrated an effect.

However, and why I am writing all this, the concept of directionality in data flow still seems flawed. Although the music data is sent from A to B, the infrastructure data (ACK packets for TCP, Ethernet traffic) still goes in both directions, and hence the electromagnetic “waves” on the wire also travel in both directions.

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Thanks @Suedkiez , good summary and you’re bringing back more of my former life than perhaps I care to remember :joy:
I think the whole thing here is about low level electrical interference, in devices or on cables etc.
In a business or home data environment there is no care for that, the important thing is the data arrives bit perfect.
In an audio environment it changes somehow. I know they are controversial but the Chord GroundAray devices I understand soak up and dissipate electrical noise in devices. I used to have a Chord Linkplug for my NDX 2 and it definitely made the presentation clearer, I think basically doing the same thing, soaking up electrical noise.
If a cable can carry low level interference, it won’t effect the data stream but could effect the next device on the network. If that happens to be an audio device, that may be where these changes are manifesting?
I do wish the OEMs like Chord would come out and declare exactly how their cables/devices make a difference. I think they don’t as it’s actually simple application of relatively cheap electronic components, being sold for huge markups, but maybe also I’m doing them a huge disservice!
Either way, I and I think many others would like to understand it better and enable optimisation of their setup :blush:

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Amen to that!

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Interesting article here that may explain what’s going on and how the multitude of devices (shielded/floating/choked cables, GroundArays, Ground boxes etc.) try to fix it. A lot to take in with no electrical engineering background but long story short, emi can be transferred and have an effect on audio devices and some of it can be minimised by the application of external devices/cables etc.

Would be better if OEMs built protection in at every stage, maybe some do?

Maybe they have customers asking for this or being unsure how to apply cables, if there’s no direction to them?
So, simple give them a guidance which may help (Chord knows…) and worst case does not harm.
But it may be reassuring to have something put in “right”?

Just be aware, that all the SYNs and ACKs are usually very small packets, while the data transfer often uses big packets! :deaf_man:t2:
So, while number of packets may be similar with TCP, the time periods for transmitting/receiving signals may be different.
Maybe we should try streaming across UDP vs. TCP? (Not talking packet loss or jitter - let’s assume that’s sufficiently buffered when streaming music, unless you have audio calls ongoing.) :thinking:

(SCNR)

If you went for the floating option (rather than connected at one or connected at both ends) then it won’t be connected at either end. So you can connect any way you like in theory. If you prefer any particular direction during listening (direction of writing on cable going to streamer from router for example) then go for it. Some hear and difference and some don’t.

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Thanks @Michaelb ! So I’m good, the shielding protects from close interference and the disconnected shields protect from transmitted interference. I think….

But.

Ethernet cable is usually essentially 4 core cable. Data is transmitted from the sender to receiver in a pair of cores. Data from receiver to the sender uses a different pair of cores.