I’m looking to upgrade my floorstanding speakers. I currently have B&W CM8, originally used with a UnitiQute 2 and NAP 100, which worked well. I’ve since upgraded to a NAC 272 and a NAP 250.2 (around 2012).
After speaking with Naim I had the 250 serviced by Darran at Class-A Audio, which made a really noticeable improvement. The system now sounds much better controlled and engaging, but I feel the CM8 are now the limiting factor. Vocals are lovely, but bass weight and overall scale still feel a bit lacking, and I think the electronics deserve something more capable.
Unfortunately I’m buying second-hand (budget up to ~£2k) so auditions are difficult. At the moment I’m torn between ProAc DT8 and PMC twenty5.23.
My concern is:
PMC might be a bit lean/light in bass with this setup
DT8 might be too full or warm in my room
Room is roughly 5.5m × 4m, awkward layout with bay window/fireplace, speakers will not fit adjacent to a wall.
Has anyone run either of these with a 272/250 (or similar Naim setup)?
I’d be particularly interested in real-world thoughts on:
bass weight vs control
musical engagement
placement sensitivity
I am into all kinds of music, from classical to drum and bass, country, electronic, Phil colins, Simply Red. Anything that sounds good!
Happy to hear other suggestions too, but ideally from experience with similar Naim systems.
When I had 272/XPSDR/250DR I used stand-mount PMC Fact 3s in a slightly smaller room and the combination worked pretty well. The transmission line design certainly gives more bass than you might expect from the cabinet and driver sizes. So I reckon there’s a good chance the PMCs would work well, though I stress I’ve not actually heard that combination.
Having a speaker that works well with your system and in your room is very important. First thing I’d recommend is hold onto your old speakers through an ‘upgrade’ if possible.
You don’t say how long you’re lived with your refreshed system. Be a good idea to led it bed in and settle first. Sometimes performance post service can vary. Sometimes.
I don’t have a lot of newer speaker experience. SBL’s with yor system can work really really well in the right room. I also have a massive soft spot for Royds speakers, lovely tonality but not the last word in insight (IF that’s important to you).
Not necessarily so, though likely only at seller’s premises I have bought secondhand speakers on 3 occasions, and auditioned each time. If being sold by an enthusiast upgrading, they will understand and even expect your request to hear. If they will agree, take your existing speakers, to give a baseline comparison given the different room characteristics, and if their amp is different take yours so that you’ll know how well they work together. I have done just that, with large floorstanders weighing around 50kg, though admittedly my budget was larger.
Not a bad size room. And adjacent to wall is not always good anyway! In similar type of room I found speakers worked well either side of bay, centres about 3ft from side walls, and backs of speakers very close to the extremities of the bay opening.
If you don’t need floorstanders then the TX5 is within budget and a rather special speaker.
It retains the ATL design, but will outperform both of those speakers you have suggested.
Bass weight will be substantial, but well controllled by your amplification.
Placement of any speaker regardless of design will benefit from a bit of free space, but the TX5 have no rear porting.
The musical engagement of Alan’s speakers must be heard to be believed. They are really masterful speakers. They have full range and incredible staging…. I’m keen on another pair of TX (TX1) for my study to supplement or replace my ATC….
When I was looking at last replacing speakers I compared the CM8 with the CM10 S2, and the latter had far more grunt. For me a signature of B&W speakers was great detail, but lacking bass, until the CM10 S2’s. Might be worth a look.
Thanks Jay for your reply. My amp came back on Monday, so I have only been with the refreshed system for just under a week. I must admit, I am enjoying the music more each day. Not enough to stop me wanting to scratch that itch, but the sound is certainly a lot more cohesive than before and more grip to the bass. How long do you think the amp will take to bed in?
SBL’s are an interesting suggestion, although I have just had a look and they won’t fit too well aesthetically. Similar story with Royds.
Well, that’s thrown a spanner into the works! They look very interesting, but I am a tad cautious given the lack of reviews… I would also potentially have to buy them blind as York is quite a distance from where I am in London.
Would I regret buying them blind?! I would honestly have to up my budget though and go for the TX9…
Thanks Ian. I had the same quandary. I was looking at the CM9 S2 and the CM10 S2 initially, but then I wondered if it would just be the same but more, if that makes sense… And would I be missing something that other speakers could give. I must admit though, I do love the CM8’s vocals.
For your money, I think you can get a new, boxed pair of PMC Twenty5 23i. Get on the google if that is what you are after. There are deals in the usual places/dealers.
I have a 272 (with XPS) and an old 180 with PMC25 23I - and I don’t think the are bass light. I used to have a pair of Royd Eden speakers and the PMCs have definitely got more bass. Overall I’ve been very pleased with my PMCs
The only constant in my system through all my upgrades for the past 30 years or so are the speakers, Allae’s
They sounded great with my first NAIM system, and sound really great with my current (and last!) system. Might be an\ble to find a pair at a good price.
Depending where you are in London, only around 4 hours drive each way. Pisdible in s day, easy with an overnight stopover (Enjoy York while you’re there!) Many people don’t live near dealers, or buy secondhand and have to go by where things are available. A few years ago I did a round trip of about 800 miles driving with two overnight stops and a three hour or so ferry journey each way. Worth ig fir the result.
I think Naim and Neat do have a certain synergy probably due to it being rumoured that Neat use Naim amplification (along with other brands) to test and audition their speakers.
I have a pair of Elite Classics on the end of a SN3 and the combination performs very well indeed.
