Glass and isolators under NAP 250DR – experiences

Hi-Fi Corner
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Hi all,

I’m considering an isolation setup for my NAP 250DR and would appreciate some quick feedback.

Plan is to place three IsoAcoustics OREA Indigo isolators under an 8 mm tempered glass plate, with the 250DR sitting on top of the glass on its standard feet, inside a wooden TV cabinet.

So:
NAP 250DR → 8 mm glass plate → 3× OREA Indigo → wooden cabinet.

Main goal is a bit more isolation from the cabinet without losing the Naim sound (PRaT, drive, dynamics).

Has anyone tried something similar with a 250DR or other Classic Naim gear?

Thanks!

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The key will be to listen to the results and see what you think. There’s a lot of complexity to isolation as I’ve found out over the years. Mass, compliance - or lack of it, will all make a big difference.

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I reckon you would get better sound with these. Essentially an encased spike and cup. My theory is that naim components perform better on a platform with solid ‘feet’ as opposed to a vibration dampening system (as evidenced by the cup and balls used on the fraim rack).

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I tried Oreas under a Nova and they wrecked the sound, making it thin, etched and artificial. I certainly wouldn’t go mixing them with glass as well. If you want to try something, thick glass and Fraim cups and balls are a safe bet. You can also use nuts and ball bearings if you want a cheaper option to experiment. Just use three, to give a stable support.

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I agree with Geko. Footers (whether they are spikes, pads, balls, or hybrid) are complex. They are system dependent, room dependent, and subjective.

If your Naim dealer has a Fraim in their showroom, ask to borrow a Naim Fraim toughened glass sub-shelf and three cup-and-cone interfaces, and try them on your wood cabinet.

NAP 250 DR > Naim glass > 3xNaim cup-and-cone > wood cabinet

Here is my “too long, did not read” appendix.

I own five Naim boxes (NDX 2/XPS DR, NAC 252/SuperCap DR, NAP 250 DR) with Super Lumina and Power-Line full looms.

I live in a small, open space which is on the bright side. It has a hard wood floor and a high California ceiling. I cannot treat the room, so I have become a near-field, low-level listener.

I prefer my Naim boxes with DR power supplies (i.e. my XPS DR, my SuperCap DR, my NAP 250 DR) on a wood stand. I am currently using a wood stand made by Isoblue HiFi in the UK.

I prefer my Naim boxes without DR power supplies (i.e. my NDX 2 and my NAC 252) on a Naim Fraim.

This set-up works for me in my room, but it will not work for everyone.

I have asked AI about putting footers under my NAC 252, and it suggested using three footers (two at the front and one at the back - away from the Burndy cable).

AI described:
Sound Kaos footers as “faster” and “sunnier”
HRS footers as “quiet” and “dark”
Stack Audio footers as “calming”

Like Geko said: There’s a lot of complexity to isolation.

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Tempered glass is generally agreed to be a good support for Naim gear. My understanding is 10mm is preferable to 8mm.

Probably the safest choice for isolation would be Naim Fraim cups and balls. Unless you had the option to return them if they didn’t work out, I’d be hesitant to try the OREAs, at least not initially.

There are also DIY options. Many years ago, the “ball nutter” - a stainless steel ball supported by a suitably sized nut - was a well-regarded budget solution.

There was a long thread on this forum by a user with a background in materials science. They designed a cup-and-ball support based on the principle that the ball should be rigid (silicon nitride) but the cup should be soft (brass). I built something similar for my own setup, 3mm silicon carbide balls on 10mm dimpled brass discs. I would say that these, in combination with 10mm tempered glass, have been one of the best VFM upgrades I’ve made.

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I have 282 and 250DR but don’t own a Fraim and have placed the amps on several dedicated hifi racks throughout the years, did not try placing the amps on any wooden furniture.

Based on my experience, the rack or in your case wooden TV cabinet where the Naim amps are supported is crucial. Any form of isolators will not help much if the support or furniture is poor.

I once bought a cheap rack to try and it sounded awful. I then tried some Nobsound spring footers and they did bring some improvements to the sound but it’s still awful. The rack is really a horrible thing and I sold it after some time. The picture below shows the rack and optimisation with Nobsound footers which took some effort, but after a while I figured out it’s not worthwhile and got rid of everything.

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The NAC 282, NAP 250 Dr and Hicap Dr went back to the old trusty Finite Elemente Spider on Cerapuc footers and Ceraball Spider on 282. You may try experimenting with some options mentioned here although I understand the Oreas didn’t work for some or most people.

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My dealer recommends Equipment Vibration Protectors placed under casework (not feet, so 3 only required) particularly on streamers. I am trialling 3 on my ND5 XS2.

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Fully agree with HH. Feet of Naim amps are known to be part of the Naim voicing, replace with Isoacoustic pucks and you largely change the sound to realm of unknown. I would literally switch to other brands if Naim’s way isn’t my way…

And my experience is fully in sync with HH: Thin sound, no bass, no matter with Naim or Accuphase or Rega.

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My experience over many years with different isolation products, both low and high cost, has been that they often give with one hand and take away with the other. In general, I’ve found that products that introduce any compliance tend to soften dynamics and create an airy, somewhat diffuse sound. I don’t like that effect, and I found that the Orea isolators that I tried did that.

I now use Quadrapsire Q Plus Advanced Isolators under the feet of my equipment (which is not Naim) on my Quadraspire SV rack. I find these work well. I only use them because they are designed by Quadraspire who make the rack and so use the same philosophy. Mixing and matching from different manufacturers can have very unpredictable results I find.

If I were you I would stick to Fraim glass with the cups and ball bearings for use with Naim equipment. As @juliushui says above, anything else will take you into the realms of the unknown.

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This is what I use under all components. Smaller ones under Nait.

Not for any vibration damping but so I can get a duster underneath :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

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They look very much like rubber hockey pucks.

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They very much are :grin:

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I would recommend to use a bamboo cutting board (e.g. Ikea) instead of the glass. This was once recommended by a German hi-fi magazine and worked out perfectly in my system. And you don‘t have to spend a fortune on it​:grin:

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Tick glass with Fraim cups and balls is looking like a good option to start with.

I was hoping for a couple solution like the ‘NorStone Spider Anti-Vibration & Damp 50 Glass Plate’, whick dempers are to soft for the NAP 250DR.

The 250DR is designed to coupling, not for decoupling.

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Unfortunately, my dealer has gone bankrupt.

I am looking for something like the ‘Naim Fraim toughened glass sub-shelf and three cup-and-cone interface’

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Thanks for the long thread, will read that!

What yoy made is something that I’m also looking for.

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I would like to put the 250 DR on tempered glass and use the original feet.

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For my understanding (research) the 250DR needs a hard surface.
For a source or pre-amp it can be different.

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You could just buy the Naim cups and balls, your own glass and you get this….

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