I’m considering a possible system upgrade in the near future and one of the options I’m thinking about is Harbeth P3ESR + the Nelson bass extender stands. The amp I most likely would use is the Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 as my room (about 19m2) is acoustically challenging and the speakers would need to be placed close to the wall, about 20-30cm from it, so I would need some form of room calibration and Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect should be one of the best there is.
Anyone tried the P3ESR with the Nelson stands and could offer some advice or input on how this would work? I’ve heard Harbeths once before myself, that was about 15 years ago but I do remember that I was impressed, it was either the Compact 7 or Super HL5.
I currently do most of my listening with ZMF Atrium headphones which I really like and when I asked AI which speakers would resemble the Atriums the most the answer was clear: Harbeth.
@JR1911 My system is very different than yours. That was also the case when I had an earlier version of the small Harbeth speakers. They performed really well in my difficult room. I then moved to the M30 speakers, which had imaging issues, but great tonality. They simply needed a wider room. Overall, I find Harbeth to be fairly neutral. The bigger ones need a wider room. Stands were very important. Lots of approaches to stand design. Ask your dealer. AI suggests open frame stands.
Why trust in AI? Why not listen to speakers yourself and decide? Your profile says you have an Atom HE. Why change to Lyngdorf? I have an HE with active PMCs and it’s excellent. Have you tried PMCs or smaller ATCs, such as the active 20?
The main reason to switch to Lyngdorf is to get access to the RoomPerfect calibration. I’m currently using a Dspeaker Anti-Mode Dualcore 2.0 between the Atom HE and my Genelec G Three active speakers to do the room calibration and it helps massively but it’s very basic compared to RoomPerfect and it only does the calibration up to 500Hz.
I would like to demo the speakers, but the closest retailer here in Finland that sells Harbeth is 500km away. I haven’t asked yet about the possibility of a home demo yet though, but even then I’d have to try to get the amp from a different seller.
My PMCs live 9cm from the wall and I have no room issues. I’d try better speakers before ditching the Atom HE. It’s an excellent product with great sound quality. It seems as though you are prioritising tweakability over sound signature, which seems the wrong way round. Is your room really that bad? A lot of room issues can be overcome with speaker placement, soft furnishings, curtains etc. I know nothing about Room Perfect etc so can’t really assist further.
The Harbeth/Lyngdorf is likely to sound very different indeed to your Atm HE/Genelec system. My feeling is that you should be able to get good results without resorting to any form of room calibration through careful choice of speakers. The Harbeths are best well away from walls as I understand it so straight away you are creating issues by using them. It makes more sense to me to choose a small speaker designed for use close to walls. Having the Atom HE does limit your choice somewhat. If it were me then frankly I would change to the standard Atom and buy a nice pair of small high quality speakers designed for close to wall placement. If you do most of your listening on headphones and you intend to continue with that then why not just keep your Genelecs or upgrade them to a better Genelec model? I can’t help feeling that you’re going down the wrong path with room correction. It shouldn’t be necessary even in difficult rooms IMO.
My room really is challenging, the floor, ceiling and three walls are concrete and it’s almost a perfect square at about 4,3x4,5m. I have some bass traps in the corners to reduce the boominess and a thick carpet and drapes and some acoustic diffusers to handle the first reflections. Here’s the results from the calibration with the Dspeaker, the red line is before calibration and black line is after:
I’m sure trying different speaker placements would also have helped a bit but like I said I am limited in where I can place them. Lyngdorf actually recommends that you place the speakers right up against the wall to reinforce the bass response which RoomPerfect then cleans up so you get better bass without any boominess or muddiness. It should also improve imaging, soundstage and mid-range clarity while preserving the speakers natural sound.
I am also considering other speakers like the Sonus faber Lumina III or Sonetto II G2, they are downward firing so they should be more forgiving of being placed close to the wall but after witnessing the kind of improvement even a basic room calibration did for the Genelecs I’m sure even they would greatly benefit from some form of it.
The Genelecs I have now are not bad, with the right kind of recording they actually are quite nice but often they sound somewhat dry and sterile and I would prefer a warmer and more lush sound.
You should do a demo. If your room is no bigger than 16m2, you listen to smaller scale, acoustic or vocal music and not so much electronic, pop or rock, then the P3ESRs may be for you - but you should still arrange to be able to demo or for a return option.
And you may want to demo the speakers first before considering the Nelson stands. They are odd looking and quite expensive - if you feel that you really need them, for the same total price (or less) you may want to ask yourself if you should not consider some bigger high quality speakers instead. Leaving aside their awkward looks, the Nelsons are also on the high side and are not adjustable, so you may want to check your listening position.
Lastly, as mentioned above, the P3ESRs sound similar to various similar sized LS3/5a type small monitors- Spendor, Graham, Stirling, Falcon to name few of the common ones. If you can demo one of these easier, it would give you a good idea. I have the P3ESR XD and have also had most of the others.
Active speakers are a great option if you could demo and happen to like them.
The Genelecs do have a reputation for sounding like that. The Harbeths will certainly give you that warmer lusher sound. You may also want to consider the Spendor Classic 4/5’s. These have that similar BBC type sound but are much more tolerant of placement and can even be used successfully on a bookshelf. I owned them briefly and they weren’t really to my taste but they may well suit you if you like Harbeths.
I ended up going the full Lyngdorf route (including a pair of boundary woofers).
My room was more challenging than I expected for setting up my system. I listen quite near field and I was getting pretty close to moving the speakers so far from the wall that they were almost on the sofa with me and I was still troubled by a very muddy bass. My room modes were conspiring against me.
My Audiovector are now back about as close to the wall as they can physically get. It all sounds fantastic, Incredible transient speed, pinpoint imaging and fantastic sparkling treble, really beautiful pressure wave bass.
The sound is quite different to naim though so an audition would be recommended. My dealer kindly let me use the lyngdorf at home for a while (although sourcing the boundary woofers for demo was not possible so I took a chance on that).
Also worth noting that the lyngdorf user experience is quite different to naim. It is far more fit-and-forget. There really isn’t anything to tweak, it does not need isolation, special mains cables etc and there is no upgrade ladder so the ownership experience is far more passive. It’s also far less fussy about sources, just give it a clean digital pcm feed and it takes care of everything so system building synergy is also no longer a thing to be concerned with.
