HI Servaas, try Witch Hat Phantom speaker cables. I use Dynaudio speakers and switching from Nordost Red Dawn to them was an ear opener - deeper but solid bass and extended but natural treble. They do a 30 day return trial period, so nothing to loose! Best wishes Amer
Iâm wondering whether the harshness you describe might be attributable to the higher crossover frequency that most ribbon tweeters need to be set to and that this may be precisely the frequency of the strings you are hearing. An interesting comparison, if you can do it, would be to borrow the standard Proac D2 with a soft dome tweeter. I have a hunch that this may be the issue. I certainly prefer the sound of soft dome tweeters and the crossovers can be set at a much lower frequency in general because of their power handling capabilities. It also has advantages with vertical axis phase response because of the longer wavelengths meaning time alignment between the drivers will be better causing less âsuck out â in the region of the crossover point if your listening axis isnât quite right.
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Just a thought but are you using any powerline adaptors in the house, ie sending ethernet down the mains? If you are try unplugging them, assuming you can still feed the Atom with a stream but if you canât maybe you can put one of the offending recording on a USB stick and play it that way and see if it makes any difference.
Thanks again everybody. I connected the naca5 cables but do them and the other items justice I want to take a few days time to listen carefully. First impression in some haste was of some improvement but not of this being the final cure. I have had contact with the proac distributor and plan to take the speakers for a second opinion to dealer more close to my home than the Belgian firm were I bought them. Listening via usb doesnât change things. Witch Hat sounds interesting but I keep thinking that these steps should be mere upgrades, not cures for a sound that is too often on the edge of unpleasant. Harbeth??
I have been following this thread closely since it was created, as I have ordered a pair of D2Râs somewhere in mid-November, hopefully they arrive before Christmas. When I read the OPâs experience with these speakers I was a little frightened as I ordered these blindly, purely relying on reviews and of course my own experience with the Tablette 10 Signature I had for like 2-3 years. Having read those rave reviews I decided to treat myself with a pair, not that the Tabs are bad, they are absolutely fabulous, but I thought it was time for a change.
In my opinion there are couple of things that need to be taken into consideration before making any drastic conclusions, the most important one being that the OP states that the harshness is audible on certain recordings and there are no issues with the rest of jazzy, etc. music. I was experiencing the same thing with my Tabs with tracks that were not mastered up to a certain standard, although I am not sure whether we can put any limit to a mastering process, but nevertheless tabs were revealing particular recordâs shortcomings. I am assuming the D2R are doing the same thing, but probably in an even more extended frequency response, hence showing immediately the slightest edgy character in the upper frequencies of a record. There is no review of D2R that states that those are harsh, not a single one, quite the opposite, there is a small comparison in one of them with the dome tweeter, where the reviewer mentions that the dome has a slightly forward upper freq, whereas the ribbon does not have this character.
The other aspect to be considered is the amplification, no intention to say Atom is not up to driving the D2Rs, but for me this combo is not a good match, those speakers most definitely need a better amp, I can tell for sure my Tabs needed one and they are even an easier drive, being a 10ohm load. NACA 5 is a good start, I am using the same speaker cable and I am sure difference will be noticed, especiually if your previous one had a sivler in it.
Will report my findings with the D2Râs once I have them set up, hopefully in the next few days.
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I look forward to reading your response. Keep in mind that the D2Râs do take a bit to break-in(my experience) and like most things, they will reward you with a good source component.
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Apart from the problem as mentioned the proacs still seem to manage to communicate their talent in definition and rendering of space which the dynaudioâs simply cannot match. So I am not going back to permanently using my old speakers (which I use at the moment). The naca5, the lavardin amp, everything I tried didnât really do the trick. Next week they go on transport for an audition at a relative nearby dealer. I bought them blind during covid closing times just trusting the rave reviews like @realdpg did so I hope it isnât just me against the rest of the world.
Hi Servaas, I am really sorry to read that none of those changes have helped to calm down a bit the harshness. Out of curiosity, I have played some tittles from Concertgebouw and the highs are not as prominent as you describe, those string instruments sound fine and balanced, it really must be something wrong with the rest of the chain IMO.
My pair arrived on Wednesday and from the moment I installed them, from the very first notes I was able to tell there is no harshness at all. My memory is still fresh from my previous speaker, Proac Tablette 10 Sig and I can definitely tell the ribbon is even less forward in the upper frequency, which is exactly what all those reviewers observed. So far I can tell that sound is very similar, same amount of detail, same natural voices, just the low end is way more extended, which is normal given the bigger cabinet size and mid range driver. I have positioned them in the exact same spot where my Tab used to sit, close to wall, on my desk, which is far from whatâs recommended, there is not much choice I have in my room, but regardless of this bad positioning, these seem to not be fussy about it, which is the opposite of whatâs been written about them. For low level listening these are phenomenal, they sound full with no loss in any frequency extreme.
I am very pleased with them and they have been running for less than 10 hours now, canât wait for them to fully burn in, it takes a long time, I know that for a fact from the Tabs, but I can more or less tell even now at this early stage that these are definitely keepers. I wish you manage to find a solution when you go to your dealer.
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Iâve had a similar reaction to violins through Proac DT8s (dome tweeter), and Iâm sure it has nothing to do with amplifiers (Statement pre into 500 with SL cables). However, I donât know that Iâd blame the speakers, at least not entirely. I think recordings of classical chamber music vary widely in quality, sometimes emphasizing the tendency of violins to sound screechy/edgy/harsh at the top end. I hear that at live performances at times as well, though usually not when the violinist is playing a Strad⌠I donât notice the issue as much with my DBLs in the same system, and maybe thereâs a bit of trade-off in the amount of high frequency detail as a result.
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I would echo what @Yahnny said. I played violin for many years, solo, in quartets, orchestras, etc. String instruments can sound very harsh.
Great idea
Never heard of the group. Iâll check it out.
Hello and Merry Christmas everyone! I didnât get to having the scheduled outing with the Proacs. Hopefully it will happen soon ( dutch lockdown permitting) but probably somewhere next year. Regarding strings, gut or metal, I know of creamy or harsh modern recordings of eirher sort although I can say that a lot of the period instrument recordings are on the edge of bearable in my ears. Having said that I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed the new recording of Bachâs Christmas Oratorium by Jordi Savall over rhe proacs. Although maybe somewhat âoveracousticâ, sumptuously played, rich sonorities all over and not a single bit of harshness in rhe period strings or voices. Have a listen! Again, a merry Christmas! More news in due time!
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Meanwhile I have visited a relatively nearby ex proac retailer with whom I spent a good two hours listening. He also thought the speakers having an âedgeâ in voices and upper strings. A more or less random âtweekâ on the back of the speaker took some of it away and also experimenting with Lyngdorf âroomperfectâ did some good but was neither of the two was really satisfying. In the end he called with the distributor to send some other demo pair of D2Râs so another listening session is at hand at some time the coming weeks. Meanwhile I plan to have a listen to Harbeth 30.1âs, just to have some comparison. More to come.
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Please right your thoughts about the 30.1 harbeth , it is interesting by the way what are the reasons you choose 30.1? What about the shl5 for example ?
My interest in the Harbeth 30.1 is based on reviews ( in specific search of detail, voice and string reproduction over punch and how it ârocksâ), second hand availability and format. I have lived with esl63âs for years and love them to bits but I donât want the speakers to act as sun/light screens again. Hence a medium compact format on stands. But I will give the other Harbeths a listen.
Yesterday I listened to pairs of Harbeth HL5 xdâs and 30.2 xdâs using my own amp, a Lavardin ISX reference I use these days, the Atom being used as streamer. Unfortunately, due to some time pressure by other customers lining up, listening time for the 30.2âs was shorter in comparison but enough to fall unequivocally for the hl5âs; just doing their stuff very musically while the 30.2âs sounded like they were a bit pressed and less balanced, especially in the lower register. The HL5âs really worked magic with Martha Argerich playing Ravelâs âGaspard de la nuitâ live in Lugano, as well in colours and timbres as in dynamics. I simply forgot to mind about mids, highs and lows. Both presented the previous âunbearablesâ from my playlist of lost cases as (at least) acceptable without being dull. Today I ordered a pair of HL5âs, these speakers being much more suited to my ears and musical taste than the proac d2râs. I only wished they were a bit smaller. Comparison of my proacs to another pair of d2râs is still pending so swap/ sale /to the study is still in the open but it all seems to take a lot of time. To be continued.
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I donât have experience with the XD versions of the Harbeth but was made to understand that they are tweaked to sound slightly more open/brighter in the treble than their predecessors.
Based on my experience with SHL5, SHL5+, M30, 30.1, 30.2, P3ESR and C7ES3, the Super HL5s are the most balanced as they play all music genres reasonably well. C7ES3 is good too but sound warmer. The M30 of all iterations is the odd one as they sound quite different. They have the Monitor house sound which is a controlled sound. Difficult to explain in words but the M30.1 / 30.2 sounds more controlled than the SHL5 and C7ES3. It lacks the airiness of domestic models but sound more forward as instruments and vocals jump out more from a dark or quieter background. My favourite Harbeth speaker is the SHL5+.
Did you listen to the C7ES3 XD. This model is also quite popular alongside the M30 and SHL5 XD. However, the same cannot be said about the P3ESR XD as few owners of the original P3ESR who switched to the XD found it to be excessively bright in the treble.
C7ES3 is smaller than the SHL5.
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I ordered my non xd âplussesâ at another store ( not nearby) being quite possibly the last ones new out there standing at the distributor. I read about the slight brightening of the xd models and knowing that is not the thing I am after I took a gamble in a way. But I think not a risky one. So we are to be âbrothers in boxesâ. The jumped the 7âs because the combination of listening to 5âs and 7âs was nowhere near. So be it.
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The jumped=I jumped