Heating costs

If there is a heating curve involved, it sounds as if you’re using weather compensation.
The weather compensation/heat curve won’t affect the boiler flow temperature when the boiler is fired from cold. Once the building reaches set point, the weather compensation/heat curve will control the boiler flow temperature.
I suspect in your system, the default is setting the temperature used to bring the building to temperature and the heat curve is setting the flow temperature to maintain the building at set point.
Try increasing the default to 75c and lower the heating curve back down, by trial and error.

When the weather warms up, drop the default down again. 55c will probably be ok for 9 months of the year.

Carbon monoxide is produce by incomplete combustion of carbon based fuels. So if the burner or jet isn’t working efficiently, then bioethanol could give off carbon monoxide.

I would concure with this, Count.d, especially since my situation illustrates what you are saying perfectly.

We have a Wintergarden extension that was built three years ago using an aluminium frame and glass fasade system normally used for offices and larger building, the private sector is not the companies concern at all. However, the main reason for choosing this system (not necessarily the company) was because of the quality of the components and also because we needed 30min fire safety glass units in the roof.

In addition, we needed good insulation levels in the glass as there is quite a lot of it being a Wintergarden/facade system, and good sound insulation, as we are close to a 4 lane motorway. Here is the spec sheet for our glass in the roof as an example, (Contraflam 30 Climatop).

To get to my point, the problem we have is not related to the glass units themselves or the seals holding them to the aluminium frame but the aluminium frame door. The door height is 2.2m, the aluminium frame holding the triple glazed unit in place is 75mm thick, a very heavy door indeed. But despite that, there seems to be a very slight bow in the length of box aluminium down the side where the door latch is and even when the door latch is adjusted to try to achieve pressure between the door frame and the door when locking, there simply isn’t enough force in the locking mechanism to overcome this very slight bow. The result of this tiny gap (circa 3mm and 1m in length) is noise penetration all year round and heat loss during the cold periods. The door seems to be sealed fine everywhere else except along this 1m length of frame. Incredibly annoying.

It is currently -10 outside and we are heating the Wintergarden with electric underfloor folie heating which is struggling to get the room to 19 deg’s. I attach some photos for reference.

After some period of testing various gaskets, soft foam seals nothing has solved the problem because the door is sealed along the hinges anyway, and the area that needs attention is 3mm at the worst point (latch) going to 0mm at the top and bottom of the door, I need a very thin gasket that can also be compressed well.

Apart from the bow, which seems to be a mechanical defect in production, the door needs a much more robust locking system that is able to pull the door tight at three points, middle, top and bottom, the single one on our door is simply not man enough for the job.

My latest attempt now is to continue to search for the right gasket/seal (are you aware if these can be made to spec?) and I have ordered an upgrade to the single door latch from the manufacturer.

We see how it goes?

In conclusion - despite having high end specified triple glazed window units, the whole thing fails on energy and noise grounds because of a small defect in the door frame.




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At this time of the year I have it on continuously. Therefore there is no warm up time. Its cheaper too than using the timer at sub zero temps.

When it is on timer the house is warm within 20 minutes of coming on, thats with an outside temp of say 5 degrees.

This is with a 30kw boiler. What’s the rating of yours for central heating?


No jets and the only regulator is the slider. Had this 9 years in two houses. Major selling point is not requiring flu like many other fires. Water vapour not an issue.

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Thanks for the info. I might give that a try in terms of leaving it on, need to take some readings first.

When you say the house is warm within 20 minutes, what sort of difference in temps are you talking about? Would this be like a 3c difference?

My boiler is rated at 32kw so can’t understand why it takes so long

Thanks @Fatcat

I’ll give it a try…I suspect they set the default low to start with to save energy and as you say probably fine for most part of the year.

Nice! Very discrete.
Bioethanol will burn cleanly. And you should have sufficient ventilation if there’s no condensation issue.

No gas or oil here. Electric peaked yesterday after a few days of 0 and overnight -4 degrees. 10 euro 3 centimes. I am trying to keep it below 10 Euro if possible. Outside temp today is back up around 10 degrees so hopefully back down to the 7 or 8 Euro that we have been seeing this month. Wood burner is using around 4-5 euro per day.

Ah, sorry, missed it being ethanol. (Bioethanol is simply ethanol.) For ethanol under normal conditions I think incomplete combustion which potentially could produce carbon monoxide is indeed unlikely or negligible, unlike hydrocarbons for which that happens more readily. A CO monitor is therefore probably not justified. My comments re water vapour possibly carbon dioxide still stand. (I’d amend my original post, but can’t.)

I don’t know what additives there are in the fuel (in UK at least for it to be free of heavy excise duty it will be denatured in some way to make undrinkable) - they potentially could give rise to low levels of pollutants, though again I’m sure very much less than is common with hydrocarbon fuels.

Yes, about that.

Is that hot water or CH, they are sometimes quite different power ratings.

What’s frustrating about all of the price rises (in relation to just about everything) is that it’s always the consumer that sucks up the bill. All I hear on the news is how companies are making bumper profits and managing to avoid any cost increases as they’re just passing it on to the consumer. The energy thing is a total joke really. Its all going to work out fine though as we have wonderful world leaders to resolve it…

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Anyone else burn wood pellets (Biomass) for central heating?

We do not have gas available so our options were fuel oil, calor or air source heat pump. We looked at the latter but with a very old property that can only be insulated to a modest degree were advised that the overall cost of running such a system may not be that favourable, and the lack or responsiveness might also be a factor as we aren’t always in at the same times/days.

We were keen to move away from fuel oil so had a pellet boiler installed about 3 years ago. I know it is not a perfectly green solution but everything would have been a compromise. We will receive a Govt RHI grant for 7 years (scheme now discontinued) that actually covers our fuel costs each year plus about £2-300 ‘profit’. The cost of the boiler etc was not cheap though.

The system has a few drawbacks and you need the storage for either a large hopper or the bags but we are delighted with it generally. Interestingly the cost of our last pellet delivery in November was only up by about 20% from previous. Pretty good comparison with other fuels but not sure how long that differential will remain.

Bruce

Anyone interested the boiler is from Okofen. Austrian marque I think.

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Not sure exactly on the specification it says output is 31kw, flow rate 12.7L/min. It doesn’t seem to differentiate between hot water or CH well not as far as I can see

That sounds like hot water power rating. If you have the boiler model details I can get the information from my mates boiler database that he used for his work.

@Willy has fitted Drayton Wiser thermostatic radiator valves and hub controller. This systems allows individual values to have their own heating control both in terms of time and temperature. It also requires a modern boiler supporting Boiler + or equivalent. I don’t think building regulations yet require this and probably they want gas boilers to cease. In effect the boiler and the TVR work together the produce the required amount of heat.

Willy might perhaps share his views on how effective it has been. He fitted his bits an pieces. The older generation of boiler installers may not want to faff around.

I would

Blimey, I never even knew these things existed, at least not for domestic dwellings.

We have one, but really your house should be designed around it. I probably wouldn’t retrofit it into an existing building.

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I have often wondered why gas in the UK isn’t charged by the kWh (even if metered by volume) to allow consumers to see more transparently the difference in cost between gas/electricity. Maybe Smart meters offer such options?

Cheers…it’s a Vaillant Ecotec Plus 832