Hi Fi Racks and Occam's Razor

Hi-Fi Corner
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Due to recent aquisitions I’ve now run out of rack space. I currently use a 6 shelf Stands Unique and the top shelf is a double glass shelf with spikes. I’m not currently using a turntable so the double shelf is on no consequence. If I grab hold of it I can flex the thing around because there’s a lot of weight on it. Anyway, to cut to the chase I’ve just bought 2 identical Apollo Storm 6 racks which are ordinarily 4 shelves but I’ve ordered a fifth for each unit so the Stands Unique will be gone soon.

I’ve done a quick search of the forum to see how best to stack the shelves and basically anything with a transformer goes on one rack and all the source components on the other rack. That’s what I thought I’d expect to find. Makes sense.

However, what I didn’t find the answer to is what exactly does an individually spiked isolation shelved rack do for the SQ of your system that some rickety old shelving doesn’t. I’ve always bought a hi fi rack because it’s a neat solution for your hifi and looks nice. This was a substantial outlay for what it is (some planks of wood, tubes and spikes) and more than I’ve spent on any racks before. I haven’t built them yet so I cannot yet say if they’ve improved the sound. I wouldn’t be able to anyway because it is required to house my upgrade so I’ll expect my system to sound better anyway.

I get that a turntable needs isolation for both floor and airborne vibrations to preserve the source signal but why amps, streamers, cd players and tuners etc. What does it matter if they are jiggled around a bit? Is a hifi rack any better than a heavy set of shelving without isolation spikes? Are hifi racks mostly just a set of shelves with a high price tag justified by dubious snake oil claims? Ignoring turntables to simplify the use case but do some hifi racks make your gear sound better than any other dedicated hifi rack on spikes? If so then what’s the science behind it?

My suspicion is that a cheap set of furniture shelves will not detract from the sound of the system. It’ll just look a bit crap.

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While there were dedicated hi-fi racks 40 years ago or more they never seemed particularly expensive.

Do newer expensive designs help? I suspect so but it’s hard to demo different ones, especially with your equipment and at home where different flooring and room characteristics will be just as important in determining the overall sound.

I’m sure it helps but am also a bit sceptical about ‘cable dressing’ probably because I don’t have patience with such things.

With racks I’d probably go for looks and practicality foremost and I’ve come to realise in my AV room that I have to compromise with different bits of Naim equipment on different cheap/old racks/tables just because of interconnect lengths and not wanting ‘kit’ affecting my projector’s image (if racks were too tall).

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Can’t you try the new racks with current equipment before adding the upgrade?

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I’ve never known a rack to make any difference to sound.

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I could do but it means a few hours of uneccessary tear-down and rebuild which I suspect would be a nugatory exercise. It wouldn’t be a fair comparison because of the separation of power amps/power supplies and source components which I think may make a difference. I was hoping somebody could give definitive account of a hifi rack making an appreciable difference. Why would airborne-induced or floor induced micro vibrations be detrimental to the sound of an amplifier. Just seems a bit far-fetched or a bold claim to make without justification to me. Reviews never seem to provide evidence.

For me the advantage of a hifi rack is the open structure allowing heat to dissipate from the units and it’s easier to build your system up shelf by shelf if they are individual shelf units. However, they certainly don’t stop dust ingress.

I don’t know the answer to this but does Naim claim the full fat Fraim makes your system sound better than a Fraim Lite. I suspect they do and the measurable proof would be interesting to see.

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Open racks are a PITA for dust and cable management. I am always amazed at the elaborate constructions of some specialist Hifi racks yet they never or hardly ever think about cable management. You end up with spaghetti junction behind it. Great if you are a telecoms engineer that wants to take the job home, otherwise not so much. A (very) clever exception was Cyrus’ Hark rack which also looked ueber cool. Still did not solve the dust thing but you could just throw something over it without too much effort.

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It will also sound a bit crap. Well, it might do. Compared to a dedicated rack that is. My experience, using quite a few different racks over the decades, has been that they all have improved the sound substantially compared to ordinary furniture. As for the science behind racks, use of spikes etc. it’s a complex area. Basically racks aim to effectively manage the flow of mechanical energy both into and out of equipment. Various racks achieve this effectively in slightly different ways.

Your Appollo racks by Atacama are well regarded. Personally I would have gone for Atacama Bamboo racks (we use one for our TV/Blu ray player) like the Evoque Eco 60-40, rather than the oak Appollo racks. Could you consider swapping them over if you haven’t unpacked/built them yet? Anyway they are still excellent racks it’s just that bamboo is better IMO.

But yes, my experience has been that racks are an essential purchase if you want to get the best performance possible from your system. It will work on ordinary furniture of course and it may sound perfectly OK. It just won’t be as good as it could be.

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I did consider the Evoque 60-40 but wanted the extra depth (5cm) and also the smaller shelf spacing to keep the overall height down as each unit is 5 shelves and I needed the taller lower shelf. Also I might be being a bit cynical here but anything described as Eco normally means they increase the price by 20%. The oak shelves on mine are deceptively heavy. Not sure how the bamboo shelves compare. Knowing what a decent end grain food chopping board costs I can probably understand why these racks are so damn expensive and they’re still nowhere near the cost of the Fraim racks (which I don’t really like the look of). The shelf spacing is similar to the spacing on the Fraim racks too and so ideal for the Naim Classics.

I’ve built 4/5 of one rack thus far and using it to check out other units to make sure they are fully functional before moving them on.

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I understand. Your racks should perform excellently and look really superb as well. I know what you mean about not liking the look of Fraim. I don’t like it myself, but having owned it in the past it easily jsutifies its cost in terms of performance with Naim kit. I wouldn’t be concerned at all that you have spent money unnecessarily. You haven’t. Your racks will allow your system to sing in a way that it just won’t do on non specialist furniture. Also they will allow proper ventilation and support the considerable weight safely and securely. Money well spent.

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Maybe @Simon-in-Suffolk could offer an explanation.

My vague understanding would be that components in the amp are affected by microphonic effects from transmitted vibration/noise with this then affecting the sound generally for the worse.

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Doesn’t seem to bother users of Active speakers including studios … .

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The criteria in professional environments such as studios are rather different to the considerations with a domestic hi-fi system. They, on the whole, don’t use any fancy stands, racks or cables. Everything is chosen for robustness and reliability to withstand lots of less than careful heavy everyday use from professionals who just don’t have the time to pussyfoot around delicate and sensitive equipment. Many professional musicians seem to use very basic and low cost equipment at home - a world away from the sort of gear people on here typically use. It’s a different world.

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Quite an involved area:

Key sources are microphony issues are from several areas such as pressure connections, like interconnects, resonating steel panel/cases near electronic components, certain components like non low microphony capacitors and valves…

This can affect high performance audio in the home and quality recording studio alike, and valves are particularly vulnerable to this.

So where high gains are used, tapping a case or support and hearing a response in the significantly amplified output is an indication of fundamental microphony problems… this is also for the home and stage/studio.

So a mitigation is to dampen resonances and vibrations from components, ferrous case work, circuit boards and pressure connections, and professional quality equipment is often designed to keep resonances to an absolute minimum, through case work, PCBs, connections and components and perhaps less reliance on isolated supports - though a damped support is usually beneficial.

Note in hifi / home audio pressure connections are prevalent.

So a stand for electronics can help dampen and mitigate such resonances, though may vary from design to design unless the design has been optimised for a non damped support.

In my experience the most useful area to focus on are pressure connections like interconnects, and speaker cable connections. Naim have some good ideas here for pressure connections by using in many instances mechanically lossy plugs and sockets.

BTW some active speakers can be vulnerable here, though mitigations include isolated amplifier chambers, internal structural isolation and damping and components section and PCB layout. Obviously you can’t expect a top flight performance without adopting these measures with an active speaker… ATC for example focus on structural stability. (to mimics vibration), large damped mid / bass drive units and optimal electronic component selection for minimal microphony. Also I understand their higher end actives have an enclosed damped and isolated amplifier cavities to minimise amplifier microphony… I understand this includes the SCM40A and SCM50ASL for example

Note with passive crossovers, this is still a consideration, though there is no gain so the microphony produced will like be inconsequential to wanted audio signal… and other matters such as heat and air pressure I suspect would be of more noticeable consequence.

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Even if that was the case, many high quality active monitors available for domestic use, inclusive ATC which some here use. I don’t buy it. These amplifiers are exposed to the most extreme forces inside the cabinet and seem to do the job well.

But, like anything, if it makes you feel better about it or if you can hear the difference I will not argue about it.

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I see your point. I’ve never used active speakers myself. One can only assume that the manufacturer has taken measures to provide some sort of mechanical isolation of the amplifier electronics inside the cabinets. Of course it’s quite possible that the same electronics mounted remotely from the cabinets would perform better. Some people in the past have removed passive crossovers from speakers and mounted them in separate boxes to address just this issue, which has reportedly resulted in worthwhile performance gains. I’d be tempted to try this with my Klipsch speakers but I just don’t have the bottle.

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As an aside it amazes me that I cannot find anyone who still does a rack like my old Quadraspire which has covering doors. Makes it rather more attractive and less ‘HiFi’ in a living room in my view. Note the back is open and heat isn’t an issue.

I was hoping to buy another level, and perhaps a 2nd unit for my 2nd system but it seems it was discontinued aeons ago.

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Are the shelves at the top not just the same as current stock? If different it may be worth speaking to Quadraspire. They may just have some old stock floating around - you never know your luck. I’ve found them to be a very helpful company.

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I see what you mean but what I really want is a taller enclosed section ie more levels behind a door. I prefer to keep most of the boxes out of sight.

Bruce

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I can understand the desire for providing the best environment for the system to work in, but most of us balance those demands with domestic acceptance and normality. I think the Fraim is a very elegant solution, albeit a slight PITA to maintain and it does tend to expose the cabling, but it’s a lovely solution for a full Naim system.

At the other extreme Mana offered some very esoteric solutions for which the many advocates of this approach achieved some major sonic gains, at (IMHO), the limits of domestic acceptability particularly when taken to extremes (Just google Mana Naim :flushed_face:).

In a dedicated listening room, i’d happily accept something that resembled something i’d normally be dealing with at work, but in a lounge, shared with my other half and accessible by family and friends, i’ll accept a more compromised solution.

Your mileage may vary of course.

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I think this is probably the case for most of us. I’m aware that more performance could be squeezed out of our system but this would involve making the living room an inhospitable place to relax in, which is just counter-productive for listening anyway. Sometimes I’m very tempted indeed to just get a Nova or Atom on a nice table and a pair of bookshelf speakers or even just a Muso 2 and be rid of all the clutter of racks and cables to just have a normal living room back. The only thing that stops me is my love of music and knowing that such a set up just won’t give me the same satisfaction as what we have now. Still the thought of having an ordinary living room back is quite compelling sometimes.