High end MM, or lower end MC?

One thing is without doubt. Having worked for 2 years to buy the thing in the first place, it’s closer to 30 years of ownership than 25, it will be a big jolt to let it go!

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A bit off the wall, adding to your list, Sound Hifi do some well reviewed Technics additions, also sell Soulines Kubrick, a modern looking design. They rate the AT33EV, I seem to be one of the few people who don’t like the OC9 (I’ve not heard the latest versions), I always found it too “hifi”, great to sound impressive, but tiring in the long term. For me, the AT33ptgii gives more detail and reduced surface noise.
To fit in with the MC budget, Goldring have a new high output model at £549.

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Oh I do envy you the Graham Slee Ascension , I have a Graham Slee reflex and a Clearaudio Emotion.

My advice would be to look at a Clearaudio, as packages their combos of MM and turntable are much better value bought together . Leave about £150 for a lid

My other thought is does anybody know a person who can repair your original deck?

They (Clearaudio) do high end MM cartridges which would go nicely with your Ascension .

These two firms that don’t get the love they deserve on this forum.

Their highest price MM is £1600 and the thought of that with your Ascension would I think comfortably outperform many MC combos

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Deco Audio in Aylesbury are local, and are happy to take a look at the motor. (They also sell Rega and Nottingham Analogue :wink: ) I think the motor is equivalent to many contemporary TTs, and for which there is a suitable replacement available, I think regardless of my Systemdek being the one with external PSU. I looked into it a month or so back, temporarily forget the actual current make and model of the motor though.

I’m just holding off getting it done, it’ll be away a few weeks and whilst I’m auditioning other TTs I need it around. The noise mostly manifests after a couple hours continuous use, and seems to be better after very carefully trying to get some light oil into the motor bearing/armature shaft.

I just think it deserves an easier life now :slight_smile:

[edit: I think the original is an Airpax 990411131807 and an equivalent current is a Premotec 990411131813, care needed to swap the pulley over, and making sure the motor replacement has a long enough axle]

The new OC9x series is voiced quite differently, I’m already going through my second AT-OC9XML and can’t get enough of it.

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If you’re talking to Deco they’re also agents for Audionote UK and the system deck evolved into/was plundered for the lower end AN decks, there may be some milage in the old dog yet if there’s enough overlap to use a few AN bits to pep it up.

My recent favourite cartridge is the Ortofon SPU Royal N, with an arm with enough effective mass, 18g works, and some carful adjustment, it’s a thing of wonder considering the price. You’ll be used to setting up a similar stylus profile with the 1042. Deco sell those SPUs too I believe.
I run mine into a standard superline which has 64dB gain and I use 220Ω loading but if using a SUT stick to 1:20, there’s too much internal impdence for a higher ration, and you probably want a higher gain phonostage than a stageline N.

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Hah, that’s a great point, thanks! I have looked into how compatible some of the parts are, but hadn’t really considered if a TT1 might be an outright choice, with one of the Audionote arms. I’ll see what they say when I’m in with my TT. I usually try and get in and out quickly though, I was very thankful I had to leave my TT at reception when it was serviced there during lockdown :wink:

Part of the stimulus for the post was acquiring a Graham Slee Accession on Monday, it is 41.5 dB vs the Stageline N at 35 dB, at least according to the specs GS and Naim publish respectively.

I’m not after making my life complicated with more TT options, but I definitely think asking Deco about Audionote (either parts or a TT-1) is a good call, thanks again.

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Have you looked at an Origin Live motor upgrade for your Systemdek?
I did it years ago and felt it was very significant upgrade to the stock motor. I was also running a 1042 on a Linn Bask Plus arm into a Stageline N.

To complete the journey I upgraded to an Audiomods Classic arm, which was a massive uplift.

I have been running a Michell Orbe SE with the Audiomods Classic and 1042 for 8 years now, but still have the Systemdek for nostalgia reasons. Its been with me since 1983. I did out of interest fire up the Systemdek recently (with ageing Nagaoka MP11 Boron) Although it wasn’t in the same league as the Orbe, it did sound pretty damned good.

As a coincidence I attended a demo of Vertere at Cultured Audio a few weeks ago and met the owner/designer. The DG-1 is a fine sounding TT, but really needs to the motor drive upgrade to get the best out of it.

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So on my Roksan Xerxes X I recently changed the arm and cartridge - Origin Live RB250+Audionote Q3 (sort of souped up G1042 which I had before for many years) to Vertere SG-PTA+Sabre. I also purchased the Vertere Red Phono interconnect to replace the Chord Shawline I had been using. Latter change was driven by the 5 pin DIN connect of the new arm (old arm was RCA) and - well why not - may as well go full Vertere. That lot would eat up your budget - but it is really good. I wasn’t contemplating a change but with the Vertere decks using similar engineering principles to my Xerxes I thought the newly released arm/cartridge combinations would be a good match - and they are. I stuck with MM as I did not want to spend more on the cartridge and have the expense of moving to a MC phono (I run a MM Stageline).

I have read a reviews of the Sabre that say that it performs well in other arms as well as ones which are not Unipivots - but it is quite a large cartridge so can take a bit of accommodating. I did not bother to listen to it in anything other than the SG-PTA as I had already made my mind up that it was all or nothing. Can recommend the Sabre as an option - not cheap though.

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Hello! Yes, I’ve seen that, and read the installation instructions. I would prefer to keep my deck close to original, a close to like-for-like motor replacement seems sensible, but the OL motor, and dedicated controller, is a bit too far for me.

It is great you still have your Systemdek. Even though selling mine likely means a replacement sooner, I’m really not sure I have the heart!

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In fact my cartridge body is a Roksan Corus. It was supposed to be an improvement over the Goldring equivalent too :smiley: It is compatible with the 10X2 replacement stylii, last year I moved from 1012 to 1042.

I’m even more impressed by this new-to-me Accession stage now. As @n-lot says, it has adjustable input capacitance, I’m currently running it at 100pf, which seems about right allowing for cabling (though to be honest I don’t know the exact specs of my Roksan cable) and the Goldring loading advice. That’s a lot less than the Stageline N (470pf). I know the topic has been discussed a bit on here, once I’ve had a few weeks at the current setting I might experiment a bit. Regardless of that adjustability though, it sounds very good.

Great news on the Sabre, it was one of the higher end MMs I’d thought about, mostly in the context of the DG-1.

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You should audition it - the Sabre is very nice. Loads of detail (more than the 1042 and my Audionote for sure ) but at the same time warmer and quite mellow. Music just flows and is very rewarding no matter what the genre.

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The Vertere dg1 with the magneto cart isn’t quite there, when I got mine I also felt something missing.

I ended up swapping the stylus on the magneto (which is really an AUdio technica Vm520) for the microline version and the difference was quite significant - the DG 1 came to life.

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@gthack. I would be wary of exchanging a nicely made, suspended turntable for something that on face of it looks rather inferior. Hence, I would maintain what you have first.

As stated earlier, the motor noise is likely to be solvable. The dealer may just flush the motor with oil, or the top motor bearing may just need lubricating. In any event, it is a Philips/Airpax/Premotec motor that is/was used by Rega and Linn amongst others and is fundamentally good. The phasing capacitor in the power supply may be ‘fried’ and need replacing. Again, very easy. It may be worth topping up the main bearing oil too. The latter is Hypoid gear oil from memory.

You have a very good cartridge already and at 100pf the loading is correct. If you want to experiment, I would be very tempted by an AT540ML - the Magneto is an AT in a ‘party frock’ so why not save a bit of money? If you want a bit of fun, perhaps get the conical (CB) stylus too. It has little of the finesse of the ML, but is huge fun to listen to. The ML and CB are interchangeable in the 540 body.

If you want to change, then I would keep the Slee phono stage and get a Linn LP12 new at Magik spec. It’s not really cool or sexy like some of the other decks you mentioned, but it will last 20-30 years easily, it made from physically stable materials, and has good manufacturer support. I would stick with a good MM so you change the stylus easily.

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I think you may be addressing the OP, my main TT isn’t suspended and my second deck only by a retro fit mod.

(sigh) I was picking up some LP sleeves on Friday, and talking turntables. They had a 1200G in. Damn that’s a really nice looking and sounding thing. I had a listen against my Systemdek (ok, I wasn’t just picking up LP sleeves!), with a Dynavector 10x5 on the Technics. Not a long audition, but it was all in the Technics’s (where does that apostrophe go!?) favour. I’ve now spent a couple of hours looking at aftermarket headshells X)

The DV high output moving coil was also nice. Or at least the pairing was good, without knowing the deck beforehand it’s hard to pick apart their respective contributions.

I can distinctly hear the siren call of the deck that played the soundtrack of my youth.

I’m lining up a 1200G vs Origin Live vs Gyrodeck SE TT-off for September time. The exact spec of OL likely ironed out at OL HQ in July.

And for the proponents of Rega and Linn, I kinda need to get the competition “out of the way” before I look at them. But the sheer solidity, build quality, and all in one’ness of the Technics was quite a thing. And I’m not taking away from the Rega or Linn, I’m sure they’re lovely too, and I’m yet to get up close to either.

Oops, this meant to be a reply to @n-lot !

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:grinning:

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Before you take the plunge on the Dynavector cartridge (which I will confess to my ears seems very ‘hi-fi’) I would strongly suggest that you audition the Hana SL (or SH if you must have a high output).
It is an astonishingly musical and natural sounding cartridge. I have tried substantially more expensive cartridges which were able to dig more information out of the record grooves, but it was a relief to return to the SL. It’s an extraordinary performer at its price level and you owe it to yourself to hear one.

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Funny you should say that, I asked the dealer to line up a Hana SH for the proper demo!

The Dynavector just happened to be lying around, but sounded fun for the 3 tracks I heard :slight_smile: It really was an impromptu demo.

It might be I have to run my Roksan/Goldring initially, but I wanted to hear the Hana as a potential replacement.

The main thing is to get the deck right, but I hope to move onto cartridges pretty quickly afterwards.

Good fun so far anyway :slight_smile:

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